Some gigascreen game prototype: need input

[.koval]

Hello, friends!

I want to showcase a prototype of the game engine I am currently working on and receive feedback on a couple of questions to make decisions about the game's direction. I want to warn you in advance that I am not yet certain about completing the project, so don't get too invested.

The PURPOSE of this prototype is my desire to understand how a dynamic action-platformer utilizing the "Gigascreen" image display technique will be received. This technique has both its advantages and obvious drawbacks. One of the advantages, which is fundamental for me, is breaking free from the constraints of a classic machine.

As I am not an artist, I used the game "Abuse" (1996) for PC as a donor for graphics and basic mechanics. The graphics are converted, but in skilled hands of an artist, it can be significantly improved (this applies to both Gigascreen and the classic version).

Controls:
WASD - player movement
Space - jump
Enter - doors/platforms activation

My MAIN question is: how playable can the game be with the use of this technique, or should I switch to a classic screen render? The perception of Gigascreen heavily depends on accurate rendering in the emulator and/or monitor (CRT/LCD). Precision in screen refresh synchronization is crucial.

My personal experience is somewhat "biased" by the fact that I am already accustomed to such flickering. Nevertheless, it seems to me that when playing on real hardware, on a CRT monitor, or in an emulator with the right monitor setup (supporting VRR or 50/100/150Hz) - it is quite playable. The flickering of Gigascreen can be entirely eliminated by using the "No Flick"/"Noflic" feature in emulators that support it, but I am not considering this option as I am not focused on developing for emulators or modified/advanced versions of the ZX Spectrum. Only the classic 128k model.

Tested on:

Xpeccy (supports No Flick)
ZX Miracle (supports No flick with correct shading)
UnrealSpeccy (supports Noflic)
Retroarch (FUSE Core) + CRTRoyale shader (image resembling Trinitron TVs)
CSPECT (works correctly with VRR)
Spectaculator (with Mimic TV and Vsync features enabled, the result is more or less decent)

This is just a prototype, and, of course, it has bugs, but that's not crucial in this case.

A SECONDARY question: is a platformer like this even needed? The game "Abuse" was only used as a donor for graphics and player movement mechanics. The game itself is not intended to be a conversion or a clone.

THANK YOU!
Looking forward to feedback and questions!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oleksandr ".koval" Kovalchuk

https://opqa.space/files/abuse-zx-showc ... totype.zip

[AndyC]

It can be very dependent on the exact images, but personally I find it varies from "mildly irritating on my eyes" to " absolutely headache inducing". It might be better on an LCD, where the frames sometimes get blurred together, but the results can be very display specific.

Also worth bearing in mind is it doubles the amount of drawing you have to do and you can't use double buffering either, so your frame rate is likely to drop considerably. Plus you start needing double the amount of RAM for all your tiles/sprites etc.

[.koval]

Also worth bearing in mind is it doubles the amount of drawing you have to do and you can't use double buffering either, so your frame rate is likely to drop considerably. Plus you start needing double the amount of RAM for all your tiles/sprites etc.

Please, see the build attached to the post (link at the bottom of the post). Prototype is already working and I'm not asking about technical challenges cause I'm aware of it already
I'm just asking in general: "Is it worth to use Gigascreen or better to switch to classic screen".

[+3code]

I remember in Super Mario they used too some fast speed graphic change with a blurry effect iirc, it was playable. But in this case I'm not sure.

[SamC]

Thank you for the enhanced software!

This is the first full-screen gs. game for the classic ZX Spectrum! Before that, the gigascreen was mostly used for large static images or for parts of a game screen: maps in Gyron and Nether Earth. Maybe some part in the Soldier of Fortune is also diplayed by use of the gigascreen(?).

With today's modern video interfaces and digital converters it is not difficult to "tame" the gigascreen more and keep it stable and have "Noflic" settings (as mentioned above for emulators). It is a continuation of the hardware gigascreen (since 1998?). 3 versions of the non-flickering gigascreen can be found in the setup (ZXi-hw-ports) of the eLeMeNt ZX/MB hardware. At least with the HDMI-connected displays is the game stable and perfectly playable.
Could anybody test the game with more devices (ZX-HDMI, ZX-VGA-joy, SpecNext)?

[AndyC]

Please, see the build attached to the post (link at the bottom of the post). Prototype is already working and I'm not asking about technical challenges cause I'm aware of it already
I'm just asking in general: "Is it worth to use Gigascreen or better to switch to classic screen".

Like I say, it's highly dependent on what the final graphics look like. Even small tweaks can vastly changes how tolerable the end result is. The mario game mentioned was almost unbearable, but might have been better if the graphics weren't just lifted from the NES.

So the question is, what's the main goal? Are you most interested in the technical challenge or do you want a more widely playable game?

Gigascreen gives, at best, marginally nicer graphics, but the more motion you have on screen, the more you'll end up having to avoid using (by having the same data in alternating lines) it to stop it becoming a flickering mess. Personally I don't think it's worth it for the end result, especially with all the other compromises required, but YMMV.

[EdToo]

Playing on ZEsarUX with gigascreen on the picture was pretty stable on an emulated 128+. The game currently felt fast and fluid though there isn't much else going on to tax the cpu. If it is a fast action game then any flickering would be masked by the screen scrolling. With gigascreen settings off I would find the game too distracting.

[Xela]

It looks really cool!

Tested it on Spectrum Next with LCD-monitor - flickering, of course, but it’s not too annoying. For old times’ sake, my hand reached for the mouse

My MAIN question is: how playable can the game be with the use of this technique, or should I switch to a classic screen render?

Pretty playable. I think it's fine to stay with this engine without switching to classic rendering.

A SECONDARY question: is a platformer like this even needed? The game "Abuse" was only used as a donor for graphics and player movement mechanics. The game itself is not intended to be a conversion or a clone.

Absolutely, yes! If there will be mouse support too, it will be great. Still, it's not very comfortable that the up and down keys control the weapon rotation. It will be difficult to react quickly when the action is going to be intense.

[Jbizzel]

absolutely wonderful. The flicker could be used for atmosphere. Your demo is brilliant, even with a little flicker in fuse.


Does a man have to climb a mountain? No, but he does. Why? Because it's there. Keep going.

[C.Born]

in RVM , realvirtualmachine you dont need a special gigamode,
it looks WONDERFULL
and a good choice to make it b/g/w , monochrome since colour move is difficult imo
if you try to keep yr colurs in 4 layers rgba then you can achieve some good pictures, thats what velsoft did with his dragons
i like the movement very much aswell
succes and looking forward

secret wish (wont tel what you know)
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/2 ... Ant_Attack
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/2 ... uction_Kit


ps
my own routine
viewtopic.php?p=126897#p126897

[Timmy]

I don't understand why you think that reception is important. If you like to make this game then you should do it.
(EDIT: I need to listen to myself more often, too, at this advice.)

Always make the game you want to play, otherwise it's going to be neglected by you. That is usually more important than making a game for everyone else except you.

And to be honest, if you are going to use WASD then it really doesn't matter to you how it's being received anyway.

If you ask me, considering your artistic and coding qualities, your gigascreen version is probably a little better than a regular version. That's fine.

[Grongy]

Not a big fan of gigascreen as a concept, but that demo engine is really good.

[bob_fossil]

Effects looks fine on my grey +2 through RGB/SCART into an LCD TV. Background is very solid. Player sprite is a bit shimmery as it's constantly animating but it looks good. Scrolling around is fine too. One of the frames of animation when rotating the gun round has a horizontal 8 pixel line that shouldn't be there - when the guy is pointing the gun down and to the right at 4 o'clock.

[.koval]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Really appreciate it!

But in this case I'm not sure.

Could you please elaborate? What specifically in this case makes you think differently? Thanks for the feedback!

Thank you for the enhanced software!
This is the first full-screen gs. game for the classic ZX Spectrum! Before that, the gigascreen was mostly used for large static images or for parts of a game screen: maps in Gyron and Nether Earth. Maybe some part in the Soldier of Fortune is also diplayed by use of the gigascreen(?).
…
At least with the HDMI-connected displays is the game stable and perfectly playable.

Thank you for the feedback! Let's be honest – it's not a fullscreen gigascreen, but still more than 2/3 of the screen (view size is 256x160).

So the question is, what's the main goal? Are you most interested in the technical challenge or do you want a more widely playable game?

Gigascreen gives, at best, marginally nicer graphics, but the more motion you have on screen, the more you'll end up having to avoid using (by having the same data in alternating lines) it to stop it becoming a flickering mess. Personally I don't think it's worth it for the end result, especially with all the other compromises required, but YMMV.

My initial goal was simply to create a proof of concept that a gigascreen platformer at 16.666 fps is possible on a classic 128k machine. The idea of gigascreen has been in my head since I conceived it in the early '90s when I was in school (admittedly, I'm not the first person, but at that time communication wasn't as widespread, and everyone believed they were an inventor ). I never came across a game fully utilizing gigascreen in a finished product. However, now, witnessing the quality level of current games, I feel compelled to try and contribute something. I just don't want to create yet another Manic Miner or Jet Set Willy.

With gigascreen settings off I would find the game too distracting.

Got it! Thank you!

It looks really cool!

Tested it on Spectrum Next with LCD-monitor - flickering, of course, but it’s not too annoying. For old times’ sake, my hand reached for the mouse
…
Absolutely, yes! If there will be mouse support too, it will be great. Still, it's not very comfortable that the up and down keys control the weapon rotation. It will be difficult to react quickly when the action is going to be intense.

Yea, mouse support is on the list. But I also going to rethink this part for keyboard-control (already have some ideas)
Thank you for the feedback!

absolutely wonderful. The flicker could be used for atmosphere. Your demo is brilliant, even with a little flicker in fuse.

Thanks!

in RVM , realvirtualmachine you dont need a special gigamode,
it looks WONDERFULL
and a good choice to make it b/g/w , monochrome since colour move is difficult imo
if you try to keep yr colurs in 4 layers rgba then you can achieve some good pictures, thats what velsoft did with his dragons
i like the movement very much aswell
succes and looking forward

Thank you! This adds some motivation

I don't understand why you think that reception is important. If you like to make this game then you should do it.
(EDIT: I need to listen to myself more often, too, at this advice.)

Always make the game you want to play, otherwise it's going to be neglected by you. That is usually more important than making a game for everyone else except you.

Well, as I mentioned, I have a biased view on the gigascreen topic. I don't want to pursue it solely for my own satisfaction; I aim to contribute. It can also be a bitter pill to swallow when you invest a lot of time and effort, and after the release, 90% of the comments are about your software being unplayable.

Not a big fan of gigascreen as a concept, but that demo engine is really good.

Thanks, Grongy! But still... I want to know, would you play it if it were to be released?

Effects looks fine on my grey +2 through RGB/SCART into an LCD TV. Background is very solid. Player sprite is a bit shimmery as it's constantly animating but it looks good. Scrolling around is fine too. One of the frames of animation when rotating the gun round has a horizontal 8 pixel line that shouldn't be there - when the guy is pointing the gun down and to the right at 4 o'clock.

Thanks! Yes, I've seen this bug in some emulator configurations for Grey+2/+3. I believe it's completely fixable, but it's not a priority for now.

[.koval]

And to be honest, if you are going to use WASD then it really doesn't matter to you how it's being received anyway.

Sorry, I was going to answer this part and missed it (there were some SQL issues on the board). I got your friendly banter about WASD, and I have something to justify myself – the control was set up that way because I initially planned to support the Kempston mouse, and it would be awkward to play with OPQA in that case. However, due to priorities, it just remained as is. Anyway, controls will be fully customizable in the release of the game (if it even happens). And, as we started making jokes about WASD vs OPQA, I would state in advance that at least I'm using a proper 4:3 aspect ratio on my monitor!

If you ask me, considering your artistic and coding qualities, your gigascreen version is probably a little better than a regular version. That's fine.

Thank you for the feedback!

[+3code]

Thanks everyone for the feedback! Really appreciate it!


Could you please elaborate? What specifically in this case makes you think differently? Thanks for the feedback!

No worries, I encourage you to go on with the project. In the emulators I use the gigascreens is a bit headaching, but go on, the engine looks nice and the animation very soft.

[R-Tape]

In Retrovirtual machine and SPIN (with reduced giga-flicker) it looks incredible—like a 16 bit game. The litmus test would be to see it on a real Speccy, but I'm afraid I can't do that at the moment.

These days Run and Gun games are very rare - so regardless of whether it's gigascreen, monochrome or whatever, I'd like to see it released. If it's easy to do, perhaps a 'vanilla' version could also be released with gigascreen disabled.

Well done on getting it this far. It plays great.

[.koval]

If it's easy to do, perhaps a 'vanilla' version could also be released with gigascreen disabled.

Well, it depends It's really easy to disable gigascreen, but the real issue is that in this case, you would have a noticeable amount of free memory and CPU resources, and it would be a crime not to utilize them. Besides that, all the graphics should be redone for better quality for specific renderer. This means (for me) the 'vanilla' version is another project. That's why I would like to decide at this moment which version is better to develop.

Well done on getting it this far. It plays great.

Thanks for the feedback!

[R-Tape]

Well, it depends It's really easy to disable gigascreen, but the real issue is that in this case, you would have a noticeable amount of free memory and CPU resources, and it would be a crime not to utilize them.

I don't agree!

This means (for me) the 'vanilla' version is another project. That's why I would like to decide at this moment which version is better to develop.

In that case I think you should go ahead with the gigascreen. It would be a landmark game.

[Ast A. Moore]

Okay, this is pretty darned good. Can’t test it on real hardware at the moment (but could set it up in the future: a Toastrack or a +2B with a CRT TV), but it does have minimal flicker in RVM.

Frankly, I see the smoothness of the graphics (i.e. the number and quality of extra sprite frames) as a bigger advantage than the gigascreen gimmick itself, but that’s just me. Besides, I’m a huge proponent of the concept of targeting real (and, perhaps, period-accurate) hardware first and foremost, so I’ll reserve my final judgment until I can properly test it. Nevertheless, I looks very promising. As a fellow programmer, I tip my hat to you, sir!

[TheMartian]

I tried it on SpecIde, both on --average (gigascreen, no flicker) and --nodoublescan --sync (50Hz mode, vertical sync enabled), on a LED TV and the flicker is really minimum. The game looks wonderful.

Congratulations!

[.koval]

Frankly, I see the smoothness of the graphics (i.e. the number and quality of extra sprite frames) as a bigger advantage than the gigascreen gimmick itself, but that’s just me.

Yeah, I would try to keep this feature at any cost as well and find a good artist for that (as I mentioned, current assets are borrowed from PC game). Memory expensive but result is worth it.

Nevertheless, I looks very promising. As a fellow programmer, I tip my hat to you, sir!

Thank you for the feedback! Will do my best to keep feature-cut list as short as possible

I tried it on SpecIde, both on --average (gigascreen, no flicker) and --nodoublescan --sync (50Hz mode, vertical sync enabled), on a LED TV and the flicker is really minimum. The game looks wonderful.

Every day I learn some new emulator. Thanks guys for that!

Congratulations!

Too early, but I will do my best to live up to expectations

[Joefish]

I've done a game that will only work if you've got an external video interface to generate a second screen, so I can't complain if you have a game where you say it's best played in an emulator with 'gigascreen' smoothing turned on!

I was kind of surprised how the flicker when objects appear in my latest game seem to just blur on my monitor rather than flicker, even with the smoothing turned off, although I'm not keen on the flicker this demo shows. Maybe it's the alternating stipples - I'm not sure if that's an attempt to alleviate the flickering. I can say with some certainty it doesn't work - I think it makes things worse! I think it's best if, on the background at least, designs are used where the part that does flicker is kept to a small minimum number of pixels.

But the sprite graphics and animations in that demo are superb!

[flatduckrecords]

Some HD TVs and certain "upscalers" don't work correctly with 240p signals and instead interpret it as 480i (I hope I've got those technical terms correct!) so you might see a stable picture that's an interlaced blend of the two "gigascreen" frames. My LCD telly seems to do this sort of thing so I'm keen to try @.koval's demo to see how it looks!

(I had a go at exploiting the effect on SAM a wee while ago …just a static image though, not a game!)

I did have a chance to try the game on my CRT TV set and I think it looks great. The flicker is perceptible but I think it's fine, more than worth it.

[Lethargeek]

My initial goal was simply to create a proof of concept that a gigascreen platformer at 16.666 fps is possible on a classic 128k machine.

But the problem here is having an odd number (and especially such a low number) of display frames per each different game engine frame is a bad thing. The result is that in motion it looks much worse and the checkerboard pattern is obvious. Well, at least it is on my LCD screen (with VSync). It may look better on a real CRT (i remember it looked like just a slight noise over a still pic and didn't fall apart on quick nodding like on the LCD). Or maybe not. Anyway, better try 12.5 fps in comparison.