Suggestion :Developers please try to also create Appimages for linux

[Cheez26]

It's funny that you mention Godot. It doesn't have 20 export targets for Linux, only one just like Windows. It can do that because it contains all the libraries that needs. It's really a good example of what I'm suggesting. It does the same for every target platform. Nothing's perfect but the defect you're talking about it's the same on every system, and the same solution applies.

You have a point I guess, except the Godot engine itself tries to stay up-to-date as often as possible, unlike most AppImage kits or whatever.

Plus...I don't think Godot exports AppImages for Linux.

[firelord]

ok. This topic is not a debate about Windows/Linux.
It's about making linux users (not admins) life easier and allowing them to run something without installation (modifying their system).
Both windows and linux can be destroyed or made unusable in many ways*.
That's why I'm mainly use DebianDog and keeping windows 10 mostly for family to save them from having to mess with linux (eg many issues with Office files).

Appimages are kind like PortableApps in Windows. You can put anything inside them. I even put win32 programs to have them all packed in a single file and ready to use.

For me there is no debate about win32 or AppImage. They can be combined.
I made a suggestion to developers. If they bother making a linux version then they could go the extra mile to make an appimage to reach a bigger userbase.

*I know that in linux it is more easy/probable to restore your system but it needs advanced knowledge and time.

[PeterJ]

Please keep this retro computing related. Thanks!

[berarma]

ok. This topic is not a debate about Windows/Linux.
It's about making linux users (not admins) life easier and allowing them to run something without installation (modifying their system).

I'm only reacting to unfair criticism that appeared in this thread and sadly spreads everywhere.

You're correct, AppImages would be the equivalent to PortableApps on Windows, one app in one file. But another option is a zipped directory or with an installer, just like Windows. And if you pack in all dependencies, again just like Windows, it'll work almost everywhere. In cases with complex dependencies, probably the easiest option is AppImage because it packages dependencies semi-automatically for you.

There's also Flatpak, which is a packaging system independent of the distro. The main difference being that dependencies are packaged separately. And Snap is another one but this is mainly for Ubuntu.

Edited by PJ to reduce excess quoting

[firelord]

We're talking about keeping alive an old computer in the future. In some years developers related to the ZX will be more difficult to find. We will only have their sources or better pre-made deb files or other. A correctly build AppImage will be our best chance to run an old abandoned ZX emulator after support is dropped (or win32 version).

But another option is a zipped directory or with an installer, just like Windows.

That is exactly what I am trying to avoid with AppImages and SFS files.

I suggested appimages because :
1. They offer a simple way to try an emulator(or other program). If you don't like it just delete the file and it leaves no residues on your system.
2. (in theory) they can be used in future linux version. This means that if it works in debian 10 it will be possible the same single file to run in debian 12. It's not guaranteed that they will work in different distros -but they might.

Snap/Flatpak
I've tried Snap and Flatpak. They installed whole Gnome just to try a 1MB program...
Snap and Flatpak are dependend of their creators. Next year they might be bought by apple and stop being free...
Appimage are like an executionalbe zip file. Not depending on any platform.

[berarma]

We're talking about keeping alive an old computer in the future.

AppImage's goal is portability, having the same file run on every distro. It should work if it's correctly built.

Agree with the rest. I'm not a fan of AppImage but it works.

Snap/Flatpak

Can't we just leave the rumours and biased criticisms out? Every app is dependent of its creators. Tomorrow anyone could buy your favourite ZX emulator and charge you anything they want. Snap and Flatpak are open-source, and specially the latter is backed by a big community.

Flatpak will install the dependencies required by the app. The good thing about it is that it will install them only once for every app using that dependency. With Snap or AppImage, the dependencies are duplicated for every app.

Let's make it easier for devs to learn about the options.

Edit: I guess you meant that Snap/Flatpak depend on a server for installing/updating. My analogy is not the same in that case. Anyway, the server component is also open-source as everything needed to setup your own server. I don't think they're going away, so probably your AppImages will stop working first if not updated.

Edited by PJ to remove excess quoting

[ZXDunny]

Truly this is finally The Year of the Linux Desktop

Oh! I know this one! Isn't it also something about RISC-V and RISC-OS dominating something or other?

[firelord]

Kolibri OS will dominate in the end.
It even has a ZX Spectrum emulator that works (e80) .
2-3 seconds boot time.
Can also boot from floppy drive.

[Cheez26]

In retrospect, going in this thread blind like I did is a bad idea. I feel like I didn't have any reason to get angry in this thread. Thank heavens above this resolved itself, but I really need to stop chiming in every time someone thinks Linux is the greatest since sliced bread. Don't get me wrong though; I still prefer Linux over Windows, but if there is anything that Windows has an advantage on over most Linux distros, it's the sheer amount of legacy software that still work even after most computers have switched over to 64-bit.

Don't believe me? Well, imagine being not being a coder; instead, try being the consumer that happens to be an artist, musician, or even a plain ol' casual gamer. You need an OS that has the most easy-to-use software. Easy to pick up even. However, that doesn't mean it won't change.

I personally would prefer Flatpaks over AppImages and Snaps. Hell, Canonical, the main dev of Ubuntu, has pretty much discontinued Snap. I feel Flatpak is also just a lesser evil compared to Snap. I also think AppImages are probably hellish to make depending on the software you're developing.

I could be wrong though.

EDIT: Also I want to apologize for going apeshit initially. Especially @berarma. I think we agree that AppImages are not the only universal solution we could use for Linux apps

[berarma]

.
Also I want to apologize for going apeshit initially. Especially @berarma. I think we agree that AppImages are not the only universal solution we could use for Linux apps

Thanks for your apology. It's not that I think Linux is the greatest, but I don't think we're any less than anyone else because we use Linux. I have to say something when there's criticism thrown at us without good reason. Linux has some weaknesses like low market share and sometimes missing hardware support. The variety in the desktop interface might be a nightmare for the dumb phone support which follows a checklist but this has nothing to do with app development. And I don't think any of these should make us second class citizens or the target for bad word. I don't think it was done on purpose but it just happens.


Edited by PJ to refund excess quoting

[PeterJ]

Thread now locked. Not retro computing related