Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Struggling with Fuse or trying to find an emulator with a specific feature. Ask your questions here.
Hernan
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Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Hernan »

Now for Windows and Linux! (besides the usual Mac version)

http://www.retrovirtualmachine.org/
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djnzx48
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by djnzx48 »

Wow, this looks really nice. I'm impressed by the wealth of TV emulation options, and the tape deck is a nice touch too.

For some reason the AY chip is clocked around 5% faster than normal, but otherwise it seems to be quite accurate.
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Ast A. Moore
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Ast A. Moore »

I’ve been using RVM for a few years now, and by using I mean I’ve kept it on the hard drive and launched it occasionally—Fuse has always been my main emulator after I switched to it from zxsp.

RVM is a neat “me too” attempt. It was great to see another Spectrum emulator on Mac OS, but aside from really, really, and I mean, really great CRT TV effects, it’s a mixed bag at best.

My biggest gripes with RVM (in no particular order):
—no tape acceleration (the warp effect doesn’t count)
—poor keyboard mapping (some settings just don’t stick)
—horrific UI (flashy, but ultimately cumbersome and counterproductive); doesn’t feel like a native Mac OS app
—it’s a CPU hog (mostly due to the various screen emulation effects, I presume)
—virtually non-existent control over peripherals (e.g. the Kempston Joystick interface is always attached)

Version 2.0 brings a couple more issues:
—sound lag (almost as bad as ZesarUX)
—kudos for attempting to emulate the floating bus on the +2A/+3, but it’s way off, and so is useless for development


Good points:

Going back to the CRT TV effects, the new shadow mask effect is brilliant. I’ve been dreaming of something like that for years now. I’d be even more exited if they added a delta dot pattern, which was us it most smaller, lower-resolution TVs, but I guess it’s not feasible on anything other than a Retina display.

Another point to RVM’s advantage, though. It’s the only emulator that does a passable approximation of the ULA snow effect. It’s not very accurate, but it’s there. For the most part, that’s all that’s needed—just an indication that the effect is present. (I’m not aware of any emulator on any platform that can pull it off accurately, although SpecEmu comes pretty close.)

Sorry, can’t comment on the Amstrad emulation (and whatever else was added in v 2.0), because I have little experience with those machines. Also, I couldn’t care less. :)
Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

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and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Ast A. Moore »

My apologies, the above assertion about the laggy sound is incorrect. It’s the entire input-output lag that is pretty high.

I wrote a quick program that toggles the color of a single cell on the screen, plays a short click, and awaits for a keypress before it loops.

Visually, I didn’t notice any lag between the color change and the onset of the click. However, I did notice a lag between a keypress and the color change/click, so I decided record the audio of my pressing a key and the click generated by a few different emulators via a microphone. I then measured the delay between each sound. Here are the results for comparison:

1. Fuse 1.5.6: 78 ms
2. RVM 1.1.7: 78 ms
3. SpecEmu 3.1.b160318 (running in Wine): 147 ms
4. ZEsarUX 7.2: 165 ms
5. RVM 2.0b1: 171 ms

Keep in mind that my keypresses were not super consistent, although I tried to press as fast as was feasible.
Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

Ast A. Moore wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:49 pm My apologies, the above assertion about the laggy sound is incorrect. It’s the entire input-output lag that is pretty high.

I wrote a quick program that toggles the color of a single cell on the screen, plays a short click, and awaits for a keypress before it loops.

Visually, I didn’t notice any lag between the color change and the onset of the click. However, I did notice a lag between a keypress and the color change/click, so I decided record the audio of my pressing a key and the click generated by a few different emulators via a microphone. I then measured the delay between each sound. Here are the results for comparison:

1. Fuse 1.5.6: 78 ms
2. RVM 1.1.7: 78 ms
3. SpecEmu 3.1.b160318 (running in Wine): 147 ms
4. ZEsarUX 7.2: 165 ms
5. RVM 2.0b1: 171 ms

Keep in mind that my keypresses were not super consistent, although I tried to press as fast as was feasible.
I'm sorry to hear that and I'm surprised, because the rvm2 lag was supposed to be smaller than the rvm1 lag.

I assume you are testing the macos version. Is it a laptop? with intel graphics? I have a problem with this gpu and is that it consumes cpu directly proportional to the size of the window.

Apparently when using the system memory as video memory, the cpu and the gpu have some kind of contention (memory contention returns in the 21st century). I have tested other programs that use opengl. Maybe with Metal the thing improves

Anyway I find the test you did super interesting. Could you send me the program to do tests? there is supposed to be a lag of about 2 or 3 frames at most but +100ms is an eternity. I will try it on several computers I have and on several operating systems.

As for the floating bus, yes, I have implemented it at the last minute and by request of a tester and still is not accurate at all, do you know any software with which to test it properly?

Thanks for everything
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

djnzx48 wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:46 am Wow, this looks really nice. I'm impressed by the wealth of TV emulation options, and the tape deck is a nice touch too.

For some reason the AY chip is clocked around 5% faster than normal, but otherwise it seems to be quite accurate.
:shock:

What game have you noticed this in?. RVM 1/2 works a little faster at exactly 50hz when a ZX128 works at 50.02 or so but this difference should not be noticeable barely in the sound.

Maybe I've messed up something else.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by AndyC »

Excited to finally get to try this out now it's on Windows. Unfortunately I'm visiting the folks right now and the "broadband" is like a very flaky 56k dial up modem and downloads pretty much time out every time. :-( Will definitely give it a go once I'm back in the modern world!
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by djnzx48 »

jcgamestoy wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:00 pm
djnzx48 wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:46 am Wow, this looks really nice. I'm impressed by the wealth of TV emulation options, and the tape deck is a nice touch too.

For some reason the AY chip is clocked around 5% faster than normal, but otherwise it seems to be quite accurate.
:shock:

What game have you noticed this in?. RVM 1/2 works a little faster at exactly 50hz when a ZX128 works at 50.02 or so but this difference should not be noticeable barely in the sound.

Maybe I've messed up something else.
The frame rate seems to be fine. What I mean is the AY on a 128 should be clocked at 1.7734 MHz (according to this page) but here it seems to be a little faster, say 1.85 MHz, making everything about a semitone higher in pitch. This could affect demos such as this one that mix samples and regular tones, but that particular demo requires TR-DOS to run anyway so I can't try it here.

Thanks for a great emulator. I haven't noticed any major lag in the short time I've been testing this. I would love to see proper tape acceleration be available though. ;)
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

djnzx48 wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:32 am
jcgamestoy wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:00 pm :shock:

What game have you noticed this in?. RVM 1/2 works a little faster at exactly 50hz when a ZX128 works at 50.02 or so but this difference should not be noticeable barely in the sound.

Maybe I've messed up something else.
The frame rate seems to be fine. What I mean is the AY on a 128 should be clocked at 1.7734 MHz (according to this page) but here it seems to be a little faster, say 1.85 MHz, making everything about a semitone higher in pitch. This could affect demos such as this one that mix samples and regular tones, but that particular demo requires TR-DOS to run anyway so I can't try it here.

Thanks for a great emulator. I haven't noticed any major lag in the short time I've been testing this. I would love to see proper tape acceleration be available though. ;)
This demo is supperb!!!! :o :o :o

And yes it works on rvm2.

Steps.. you need to make a ZX-Uno it is compatible with the pentagon timing.

At boot when you see the zxuno logo you need to press break (esc) be fast ;)

You will see a menu to select the rom. the first option is the pentagon.

Drag and drop the trd file in the sd card.

load it through the nmi menu. (pressing the END key).

Enjoy. (By the way i don't notice the pitch difference between rvm and the youtube video, but is late and my ears are tired).

If you want to boot the zxuno always as a pentagon select the pentagon rom as default, when you see the logo after a power on or a hard reset press the EDIT key (TAB in my emulator) you will enter the BIOS and set a lot of things
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by djnzx48 »

Thanks, I got it working now. (I guess you meant to say to use the HOME key for an NMI?) The Pentagon timings are fine, but the samples are out of tune on a standard 128K, which doesn't happen on other emulators (e.g. Fuse). So it's just the 128 timings that are too fast.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Ast A. Moore »

jcgamestoy wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:56 pm I'm surprised, because the rvm2 lag was supposed to be smaller than the rvm1 lag.
I find the test you did super interesting. Could you send me the program to do tests?
Sure. Here you go.

It’s very basic. You press a key and release it. As soon as the key is down, the square in the middle of the screen toggles its color between black and cyan and a short beep (more of a click) is played. If you keep holding the key down, the color toggle/click will happen continuously at a regular rate. The latter is useful for evaluating a lag between the video and audio.
jcgamestoy wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:56 pm As for the floating bus, yes, I have implemented it at the last minute and by request of a tester and still is not accurate at all, do you know any software with which to test it properly?
I do, of course. Since I was on the team who discovered, analyzed, and booked down the floating bus on the +2A/+3, I made quite a few tests. Mark Woodmass was the first to implement it in his SpecEmu, and I made a special version of my test for him to fine-tune his emulation. You can check out the link in my signature for the most detailed information about it you can ever find. Here are the links to my test programs:

1. Floating Bus Test (Universal) 2 There are two versions here—2.0 and 2.1. Version 2 is meant to test the best-case scenario. When you launch it, two yellow stripes in the border will appear at the same height as the “ground” level. They may jitter a little bit, but at no point should they appear below or above the yellow ground area. When you press a key, white vertical lines will appear in the “sky” area. Again, the two yellow stripes should remain in the border at the same position and nowhere else on the screen. Pressing and holding a key will cause a single yellow stripe to roll inside the ground area. You can now press and hold keys randomly and the yellow stripe should never appear anywhere else on the screen. Version 2.1 is a preliminary worse-case scenario test. Its only difference from 2.0 is that after pressing a key, the border should fill up with yellow stripes from top to bottom. Holding a key down, will cause a single flickering yellow stripe to roll down across the screen.

2. Woody’s Special. This is the ultimate emulator test. Upon loading, it behaves just like the above. However, after you press a key, it displays a very specific pattern, which is easier to understand by looking at it, rather than reading its description. I ran this test on a real Spectrum +2A and took a video of the screen at 50 fps. You can examine it frame by frame and then fine-tune your emulator to make sure that each frame matches real hardware exactly. The yellow stripes have distinct edges that contrast well with the black border and the white vertical lines should help you see at which exact T state it happens.

(I really should do a writeup on all so I can refer any emulator author to it. The one I did was aimed more at Spectrum software developers.)
Last edited by Ast A. Moore on Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Woodster »

48K 128K +3 ULA bus
-----------------------------
14338 14364 14367 (0x4000)
14339 14365 14368 (0x5800)
14340 14366 14369 (0x4001)
14341 14367 14370 (0x5801)
14342 14368 14371 IDLE
14343 14369 14372 IDLE
14344 14370 14373 IDLE
14345 14371 14374 IDLE

During idle cycles the 48K and 128K ULAs will return #FF for port reads from unattached ports whereas the +2A and +3 ASIC, when memory paging is enabled, will return the most recently cached value from a display byte (see the above table) or a byte read from or written to contended memory by the Z80, but with bit 0 set in all cases. The +2A/+3 floating bytes will appear on all ports following the Centronics port decoding (0000 ---- ---- --0-). With paging disabled the +2A/+3 will always return #FF.

All timings are relative to the ULA/ASIC asserting the INTREQ line.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Ast A. Moore »

Woodster wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:31 am 48K 128K +3 ULA bus
I wish I could like this post a thousand times, Mark! Eloquent, no-nonsense, and dead accurate. Mind if I quote it in my future writeup for Spectrum emulator developers? Also, I need your full 3D scan for a thirty-foot-tall bronze monument. (You can choose the posture and installation location.)
Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Woodster »

Do what you want with it. It belongs to everybody so spread the word!

I tapped that up many months back after your initial work but then sat on it in case anything else turned up in how the bus works. Then it kinda got forgotten until now lol
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Ast A. Moore
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Ast A. Moore »

Woodster wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:57 am Do what you want with it. It belongs to everybody so spread the word!
Thanks, mate!
Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

Ast A. Moore wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:11 am
jcgamestoy wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:56 pm I'm surprised, because the rvm2 lag was supposed to be smaller than the rvm1 lag.
I find the test you did super interesting. Could you send me the program to do tests?
Sure. Here you go.

It’s very basic. You press a key and release it. As soon as the key is down, the square in the middle of the screen toggles its color between black and cyan and a short beep (more of a click) is played. If you keep holding the key down, the color toggle/click will happen continuously at a regular rate. The latter is useful for evaluating a lag between the video and audio.
jcgamestoy wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:56 pm As for the floating bus, yes, I have implemented it at the last minute and by request of a tester and still is not accurate at all, do you know any software with which to test it properly?
I do, of course. Since I was on the team who discovered, analyzed, and booked down the floating bus on the +2A/+3, I made quite a few tests. Mark Woodmass was the first to implement it in his SpecEmu, and I made a special version of my test for him to fine-tune his emulation. You can check out the link in my signature for the most detailed information about it you can ever find. Here are the links to my test programs:

1. Floating Bus Test (Universal) 2 There are two versions here—2.0 and 2.1. Version 2 is meant to test the best-case scenario. When you launch it, two yellow stripes in the border will appear at the same height as the “ground” level. They may jitter a little bit, but at no point should they appear below or above the yellow ground area. When you press a key, white vertical lines will appear in the “sky” area. Again, the two yellow stripes should remain in the border at the same position and nowhere else on the screen. Pressing and holding a key will cause a single yellow stripe to roll inside the ground area. You can now press and hold keys randomly and the yellow stripe should never appear anywhere else on the screen. Version 2.1 is a preliminary worse-case scenario test. Its only difference from 2.0 is that after pressing a key, the border should fill up with yellow stripes from top to bottom. Holding a key down, will cause a single flickering yellow stripe to roll down across the screen.

2. Woody’s Special. This is the ultimate emulator test. Upon loading, it behaves just like the above. However, after you press a key, it displays a very specific pattern, which is easier to understand by looking at it, rather than reading its description. I ran this test on a real Spectrum +2A and took a video of the screen at 50 fps. You can examine it frame by frame and then fine-tune your emulator to make sure that each frame matches real hardware exactly. The yellow stripes have distinct edges that contrast well with the black border and the white vertical lines should help you see at which exact T state it happens.

(I really should do a writeup on all so I can refer any emulator author to it. The one I did was aimed more at Spectrum software developers.)
Impressive work and many thanks, I do my best to implement this in the next beta.

About the lag, what osx version and what gpu your computer has? Can you press CMD+X and tell me if the video fps display something under 60. Maybe all the gpu postprocessing is the culpable of this. If you have another computer with linux or windows and a powerfull gpu test there. Nobody of my testers notice the lag, but i notice it a lot in my macbook white old computer.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Ast A. Moore »

jcgamestoy wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:44 am Impressive work and many thanks, I do my best to implement this in the next beta.
Excellent. And be sure to use Mark’s notes on ULA timings above, too.
jcgamestoy wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:44 amAbout the lag, what osx version and what gpu your computer has? Can you press CMD+X and tell me if the video fps display something under 60. Maybe all the gpu postprocessing is the culpable of this. If you have another computer with linux or windows and a powerfull gpu test there. Nobody of my testers notice the lag, but i notice it a lot in my macbook white old computer.
I’m running macOS 10.13.6 on a 2.4 GHz 15-inch mid-2010 MacBook Pro (model ID MacBookPro6,2) with two GPUs: an Intel HD Graphics and an NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M. I usually force the integrated Intel GPU to run all the time (with a special app). However, RVM2 exhibits the same delay with either GPU.

The FPS does indeed hover at just under 60; usually at around 55–58 fps. Sorry, I don’t have any other (well, more powerful) machines for testing at the moment.

Could it be that some people simply don’t notice the lag, rather than the lag not being there?

Could you perhaps make a special build of RVM with an option to turn all the video processing off? Or is it too much trouble at this point?
Every man should plant a tree, build a house, and write a ZX Spectrum game.

Author of A Yankee in Iraq, a 50 fps shoot-’em-up—the first game to utilize the floating bus on the +2A/+3,
and zasm Z80 Assembler syntax highlighter.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

djnzx48 wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:23 am Thanks, I got it working now. (I guess you meant to say to use the HOME key for an NMI?) The Pentagon timings are fine, but the samples are out of tune on a standard 128K, which doesn't happen on other emulators (e.g. Fuse). So it's just the 128 timings that are too fast.
:o You are completly right, i test rvmv1 vs rvmv2 in an spectrum analizer and the pitch in the zx128 is A LOT Higher, but i'm very surprised cause the ay code is the same, is a big bug i will fix it ASAP. Thanks!!!
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

djnzx48 wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:23 am Thanks, I got it working now. (I guess you meant to say to use the HOME key for an NMI?) The Pentagon timings are fine, but the samples are out of tune on a standard 128K, which doesn't happen on other emulators (e.g. Fuse). So it's just the 128 timings that are too fast.
I found the bug and i fixed it. I the next weeks i will release a new build with this bug and other fixed. MANY THANKS :D
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

djnzx48 wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:23 am Thanks, I got it working now. (I guess you meant to say to use the HOME key for an NMI?) The Pentagon timings are fine, but the samples are out of tune on a standard 128K, which doesn't happen on other emulators (e.g. Fuse). So it's just the 128 timings that are too fast.
While I release the new version there is a way to fix the bug, add a Turbo Sound to the machine, that deactivates the internal AY and the AYs of the Turbo Sound don't have the bug.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by zxwanderer »

Nice work, thank you for pretty emulator!
Waiting for kempston mouse emulation ;)
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by jcgamestoy »

zxwanderer wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:08 pm Nice work, thank you for pretty emulator!
Waiting for kempston mouse emulation ;)
it has kempston mouse emulation ;) Add the device in the devices panel, then press ALT+M (CMD+M in mac) to capture or release the mouse
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by zxwanderer »

jcgamestoy wrote: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:07 pm it has kempston mouse emulation ;) Add the device in the devices panel, then press ALT+M (CMD+M in mac) to capture or release the mouse
Wow, yes! CMD+M is worked for ZX-Uno. Perfect! Thank you again! :D
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by g0blinish »

Didn't found Pentagon128(Russian clone) at list machines.
can you add assembler?

Then I choose Debugger, app crached after i click CPU. Well, it is beta.
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Re: Retro Virtual Machine 2.0 beta 1 released

Post by Magnus »

Great work, very nice GUI with an impressive attention to detail! I saw this a couple of years ago on OSX and look forward to playing with it on my Windows machine. Strangely, the emulator window freezes on my external display which is connected via DisplayLink. I guess there is some driver incompatibility. Hmm, it actually wakes up when I close the laptop lid, so I'll be all right :).
My ZX Spectrum emulator project: https://softspectrum48.weebly.com.
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