Official vs non-official variants of software

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spider
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Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by spider »

This is slightly confusing however, I wonder if here it is planned / intentional to include non-official ports/conversions/variants of software for other platforms in the listing or not.

If so, could there be some kind of flag or indication it is not an official version perhaps ?

Practical example of this: Let's take a quick glance at The Hobbit , I want to mention I only grabbed this as I knew a little about it generally.

The listing states the following:
Other platforms: Amstrad CPC , BBC Micro, Commodore 64 , Commodore Plus/4 , MSX
That's quite true however as they do exist but the concern here is the +4 version is not an official one, its been 'enthusiast built' from the C64 version. Nothing wrong with that, the conversion itself is actually excellent anyway. All AFAIK.

As a sidenote to this there's also an OricAtmos (48K machine not 16K) version of the above title too. I have it.

With the above in mind, what is the official take on this please ? :) I do want to add that I'm not actually fussy either way on it and can see various practicalities with marking down versions as being 'official' or not, not to mention the time taken to actually find out about them in the first place.


Also a few years back I did a few ports to the BBC Micro of a handful of Speccy games too (yes really) so I am not sure if you would like specifics on these to consider their "Other platforms:" status. One of them I even managed to get ahold of and get a positive response from the original author and obtain permission! :D The others ignored me.
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Einar Saukas
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Einar Saukas »

spider wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:09 pm If so, could there be some kind of flag or indication it is not an official version perhaps ?
ZXDB already has a flag for each platform to indicate if the version is official or not. You just need to ask Peter to display this information in SC :)

spider wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:09 pm As a sidenote to this there's also an OricAtmos (48K machine not 16K) version of the above title too. I have it.

With the above in mind, what is the official take on this please ? :) I do want to add that I'm not actually fussy either way on it and can see various practicalities with marking down versions as being 'official' or not, not to mention the time taken to actually find out about them in the first place.

Also a few years back I did a few ports to the BBC Micro of a handful of Speccy games too (yes really) so I am not sure if you would like specifics on these to consider their "Other platforms:" status. One of them I even managed to get ahold of and get a positive response from the original author and obtain permission! :D The others ignored me.
Yes, we are interested in this information!

I exported here a spreadsheet containing all versions of Spectrum games available in other platforms:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

If anyone wants to volunteer to add missing information to this spreadsheet, please let me know. But don't worry, we don't expect anyone to collect everything. If you can add just a few rows to this table, it would already help a lot!
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Stefan »

Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:00 pm I exported here a spreadsheet containing all versions of Spectrum games available in other platforms:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

If anyone wants to volunteer to add missing information to this spreadsheet, please let me know. But don't worry, we don't expect anyone to collect everything. If you can add just a few rows to this table, it would already help a lot!
I'm happy to add all SAM Coupé references.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Einar Saukas »

Stefan wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:08 pm I'm happy to add all SAM Coupé references.
Thanks!

However SAM Coupé titles shouldn't be just listed as "ports". It's a Spectrum-like machine, therefore all these titles should have been properly added to the archive instead. Just like programs for the Timex, ZX80, ZX81, Sinclair QL, Pentagon/Scorpion, ZX-UNO, ZX-Evolution, ZX-Spectrum Next, and others.

It seems whenever I open a discussion about any specific database content, we realize there's something else to be fixed!

Anyway the SAM Coupé titles already stored in the database can be seen here:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... hine_id=16

I will complement this list with these other titles listed only as "ports", afterwards I will ask your help to validate and complement the list, OK?
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Stefan »

Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:45 pm However SAM Coupé titles shouldn't be just listed as "ports". It's a Spectrum-like machine, therefore all these titles should have been properly added to the archive instead. Just like programs for the Timex, ZX80, ZX81, Sinclair QL, Pentagon/Scorpion, ZX-UNO, ZX-Evolution, ZX-Spectrum Next, and others.
Fair point.
Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:45 pm It seems whenever I open a discussion about any specific database content, we realize there's something else to be fixed!
Haha.
Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:45 pm Anyway the SAM Coupé titles already stored in the database can be seen here:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... hine_id=16
Euch - can SAM Coupe be updated to SAM Coupé please.
Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:45 pm I will complement this list with these other titles listed only as "ports", afterwards I will ask your help to validate and complement the list, OK?
Great. Happy to help.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by 8BitAG »

I had no idea that SAM Coupé stuff was covered by ZXDB.

I will have to go through all the SAM Coupé text adventure stuff at some point... We did quite a lot of enhanced Spectrum games for the SAM, with extra QoL routines, back in the day.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Einar Saukas »

Stefan wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:17 pm Euch - can SAM Coupe be updated to SAM Coupé please.
Done!
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Einar Saukas »

8BitAG wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:50 pm I had no idea that SAM Coupé stuff was covered by ZXDB.

I will have to go through all the SAM Coupé text adventure stuff at some point... We did quite a lot of enhanced Spectrum games for the SAM, with extra QoL routines, back in the day.
Thanks!

But please wait until the next ZXDB update. I have just added quite a few more SAM titles.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by 8BitAG »

Einar Saukas wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:06 pm But please wait until the next ZXDB update. I have just added quite a few more SAM titles.
You probably won't have the ones I'm thinking of. :) I can get very obscure with the SAM.

However, you should have all of these...
http://solutionarchive.com/list/platform%2C52/
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by spider »

I'll see what I can find time to do. For the immediate moment:

The Oric version of Hobbit might be an officially sanctioned port actually I can't be sure...

The Hobbit (Oric version) Based on Speccy version AFAIK. Plays extremely well. Brilliant port imo. Not as many gfx as ZX version but enough.
Image


Skooldaze, unofficial ports for both Oric and Amstrad CPC exist.

Skooldaze (Oric Version)
Image

Skooldaze (Amstrad version)
Image


The following games exist on the BBC Micro as they were ported across from Speccy to BBC Micro a few years ago by myself.

Interestingly only Mr McNeill responded to my perm request for a port (positively, what a nice man), the others I never had a reply from although its obviously quite possible the emails I used were well dead I suppose.

With all the 'ports' the original author's copyright was left intact and I purposely never put (c) by me on any of them. Random pics:

SubSunk
Image

Galaxias
Image

Project X - The MicroMan
Image

The O-Zone / Microman II

Image

Magic Castle
Image

Probably something else I've forgotten, there is Urban Upstart actually but aside from some WIP screenshots (if interested?) I'm unsure on its status as we're taking 2012 last time I looked at it. :oops: Twas a bit tight on ram, I think it was 90% complete.

EDIT... Seems I messed the image's up a bit, sorry. If you want the larger ones, view the image then change the URL from (example)

Code: Select all

https://i.postimg.cc/tZqJFddv/hobbit-oric-atmos.png
To...

Code: Select all

https://postimg.cc/tZqJFddv
... In other words lose:
> The description at the end of the URL
*and*
> The "i." at the start of the URL.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by 8BitAG »

spider wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:24 pm
Project X - The MicroMan
Image

The O-Zone / Microman II

Image
With regards to emails now working etc... Tim Kemp's still around, and was on Facebook the last time I checked. I've not seen any signs of Jon recently... He pretty much put a full stop on his text adventure career when he stepped away from it back in the day, so I've no idea what his thoughts about ports would be.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by spider »

8BitAG wrote: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:12 pm With regards to emails now working etc... Tim Kemp's still around, and was on Facebook the last time I checked. I've not seen any signs of Jon recently... He pretty much put a full stop on his text adventure career when he stepped away from it back in the day, so I've no idea what his thoughts about ports would be.
I think if memory serves it was just a few email addresses I tried after some research. This was 2011 so I can't recall exactly now! I've not really had time and enthusiasm to write any more since then. Typically it took 3-4 hours an evening for about 2 weeks to do each one with one exception (Magic Castle) this included sorting a loading screen and much bug/play testing etc.

I do know I did try to contact authors before I did anything as I was slightly concerned. I also went out of my way to ensure that I did not put my own Ⓒ onto anything and kept the original authors (c) where it was displayed too. Best I could manage. I can't tbh really see anyone objecting as none of these are or ever were denied files, the conversions follow faithfully and up till this moment in time no one has objected, its not as though they are hidden away either! :D

The "lack of Ⓒ" was really just for my own sake, probably not worth the pixels it was not plotted on though I suppose.

I do recall fixing a bug in Microman actually where you could not escape the sink even with the correct tools if you ventured in, iirc due to a mis-typed or otherwise location byte.


This is getting off topic sorry to all. :oops:

Yes if we could have the flag for official / non-official it would be great. I thought about it being in two sections aka "Other versions" and "Unofficial versions" but that seems too much work perhaps even though its just one more (yes I know) database field.

Anyway info initially provided on "what I am aware of" regarding the above files. :)
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Einar Saukas »

spider wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:20 amYes if we could have the flag for official / non-official it would be great.
I just noticed the flag is now working at SC. Check The Hobbit for instance.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by spider »

Einar Saukas wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:59 am
spider wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:20 amYes if we could have the flag for official / non-official it would be great.
I just noticed the flag is now working at SC. Check The Hobbit for instance.
Thank you! :D
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by 8BitAG »

There are quite a lot of text adventures to which this applies... John Wilson, for example, "unofficially" converted virtually all the PAWed games in his Zenobi catalogue to Amstrad CPC (CP/M) for examples... Producing the fairly odd situation that there are actually both official ports (made back in the day by the likes of Adventure Workshop) and unofficial ports to Amstrad CPC, for many of those games!

Plenty of text adventures have had later official (and unofficial) conversions to PC too.

What may be confusing to the end-user, is which "other versions" were available back in the day, around the time the Speccy versions were published, and which ones have been done more recently... although in most cases the "official" and "unofficial" tag will mostly reflect that information.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Einar Saukas »

8BitAG wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:48 pmThere are quite a lot of text adventures to which this applies... John Wilson, for example, "unofficially" converted virtually all the PAWed games in his Zenobi catalogue to Amstrad CPC (CP/M) for examples...
If he converted games that he owned, how are these conversions unofficial?

8BitAG wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:48 pmProducing the fairly odd situation that there are actually both official ports (made back in the day by the likes of Adventure Workshop) and unofficial ports to Amstrad CPC, for many of those games!
The same game can be ported to the same platform more than once. For instance:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=1675

8BitAG wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:48 pmWhat may be confusing to the end-user, is which "other versions" were available back in the day, around the time the Speccy versions were published, and which ones have been done more recently... although in most cases the "official" and "unofficial" tag will mostly reflect that information.
Ideally we should provide an external link for every conversion. This will be enough to clarify everything.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by spider »

Talking of external links quite a fair few appear unlinked, I do note this seems to apply to certain platforms more than others. I can see a bit of reasoning with this as there's a bit of a 'not ideal spread' on some other platforms regarding their software, at least compared to say how it is done here / WOS , Amstrad / CBM etc.

I'm not going to point fingers at anything in particular although two spring to mind I'm actually exceptionally pleased that it is available at all, plus those kind of suggestions I've already made on their "appropriate platform" forums anyways long ago.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by 8BitAG »

Einar Saukas wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:11 pm If he converted games that he owned, how are these conversions unofficial?
If the original authors of the games (and owners of the IP) weren't consulted then I would say that the conversions are technically unofficial.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by spider »

8BitAG wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:45 pm
Einar Saukas wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:11 pm If he converted games that he owned, how are these conversions unofficial?
If the original authors of the games (and owners of the IP) weren't consulted then I would say that the conversions are technically unofficial.
Only issue I can see here is (I do agree though!) what if say "game xyz" the original author was approached and agreed to it, then some time later when they saw the finished conversion thought "omg that's terrible I don't like it" , even if it was a near perfect conversion, differing machine factors effect things.

So it was endorsed but then not endorsed. :oops:

I'm not trying ot make life more complicated just throwing a potential scenario into the mix, please feel free to ignore this (probably best?) and if said situation did happen best dealt with on how to display the results on a case-by-case basis I suppose. :ugeek:
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

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spider wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:18 pmplease feel free to ignore this
Done! :) :) :)
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by Einar Saukas »

... and yes, we better deal with it on a case-by-case basis.
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Re: Official vs non-official variants of software

Post by spider »

Image
As an aside to the above I discovered and was playing (to completion! , rzx to be sent tomorrow) 'Crystal Quest' , this game is in quite a similar vein in that you have to beam down to various planets/area's and collect items/figure things out.

Although the complexity of C.Q compared to Galaxias is very high, its about on par with ProjectX in terms of 'internal logic' and that's without looking. I may attempt to port it over at a future point it is on my 'internal list of stuff to revisit'

As you were ;)
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