Make Outrun playable

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stupidget
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Make Outrun playable

Post by stupidget »

After reading the 'good screenshots but bad games' thread I had a quick blast on Outrun 128k and even thought it is painfully slow, I do think it's a pretty good version and the music is spot on. I've played it on an emulator at 200% and even though this makes it a great game and incredibly playable it obviously messes the music up. So I was wondering if, with todays game design geniuses, would it be possible to speed Outrun up on real hardware?
Last edited by stupidget on Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by ZXDunny »

With the advent of the Next and the Omni, both capable of increasing CPU speed, all that's required is for some enterprising soul to hack the games to synchronise their gameplay and sounds with the interrupt. Once that's done, you can crank up the CPU speed all you like and the game will only get better.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by stupidget »

And it wont bugger up the sound?
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by 8BitAG »

Turn off the sound and put the cassette tape on instead. :)
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Ast A. Moore
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by Ast A. Moore »

Make Outrun Great Again. I’d buy that for a dollar! :lol:

On a more serious note, that would take a lot of reverse engineering and disassembly of the original. The entire engine would probably have to be rewritten. I like a challenge, but this is a tall order. There aren’t that many playable car racing games on the Spectrum, Continental Circus being my personal favorite.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by hikoki »

What about replacing graphics on Continental Circus to make it appear like Outrun? Genius! :)
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by PeteProdge »

hikoki wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:19 pm What about replacing graphics on Continental Circus to make it appear like Outrun? Genius! :)
What about - if you're a Windows/Android/Open Pandora user - downloading CannonBall ('The Enhanced OutRun Engine') and editing the sprite ROMs (somehow) and music, so that it looks and sounds like a ZX Spectrum but plays virtually the same as the arcade?

https://github.com/djyt/cannonball/wiki
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by Lethargeek »

stupidget wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:45 am After reading the 'good screenshots but bad games' thread I had a quick blast on Outrun 128k and even thought it is painfully slow, I do think it's a pretty good version and the music is spot on. I've played it on an emulator at 200% and even though this makes it a great game and incredibly playable it obviously messes the music up.
what are you talking about? outrun music seems all the same to me in zxspin at 7, 14 and even 28 mhz setting
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by stupidget »

Lethargeek wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:43 pm
stupidget wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:45 am After reading the 'good screenshots but bad games' thread I had a quick blast on Outrun 128k and even thought it is painfully slow, I do think it's a pretty good version and the music is spot on. I've played it on an emulator at 200% and even though this makes it a great game and incredibly playable it obviously messes the music up.
what are you talking about? outrun music seems all the same to me in zxspin at 7, 14 and even 28 mhz setting
Well I'll tell you 'what I'm talking about' captain abrupt!! I'm using Fuse on my MAC, not ZXSPIN and there is no option in Fuse to change the mhz setting. All you can do is change the emulator speed which changes the speed of everything, including music.

Is that a good enough explanation for you?
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by Lethargeek »

you could have said you're using crappy emulator on crappy os from the start :P
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by PROSM »

I know the primary focus of this topic is if Outrun can be hacked to run better, but if [mention]Lethargeek[/mention] has had success with the MHz setting in Spin, you might want to try zxsp. It is Mac only so I haven't been able to test it, but it claims to allow CPU overclocking independent of the rest of the emulated system. It has some pretty cool features on top of that as well, so it might be worth a look anyway.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by beanz »

Am I wrong in thinking cranking up the mhz on the Spectrum Next might not affect the speed of the sound? I recall when they were posting example videos of the 28mhz speeds they noted in the game driller that the clock was still running at normal speed even though the game was ramped up to 28mhz.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by Lethargeek »

beanz wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:57 pm Am I wrong in thinking cranking up the mhz on the Spectrum Next might not affect the speed of the sound? I recall when they were posting example videos of the 28mhz speeds they noted in the game driller that the clock was still running at normal speed even though the game was ramped up to 28mhz.
AY music player is usually called in the interrupt handler (or after a halt) so it shouldn't be affected as the interrupt is still 50hz
but digital AY effects or any beeper sound will suffer
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by Alessandro »

Out Run is not "painfully slow". The only real slowdown is in the gallery level. Curious how, out of 15 tracks, there are people who only think of that one :roll: It's enough playable as it is for me, no need to hack the code etc.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by toot_toot »

Just count the lap timer on the top right, it's at least half the speed it should be!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHlNZvFOFWY

So yes, I think this is going to be great on the speed boosted Next!

One thing that would really make it great is if they could remove that really annoying tyre squealing sound. It grates really badly after no time at all.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by PeteProdge »

Alessandro wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:22 pm Out Run is not "painfully slow". The only real slowdown is in the gallery level. Curious how, out of 15 tracks, there are people who only think of that one :roll: It's enough playable as it is for me, no need to hack the code etc.
By 'gallery level', do you mean the one with lots of stone-henge-type 'goalposts' that form a kind of tunnel, on Level 3 if you always go left at every fork? Yes, that was the real low point, I agree, but the other levels are still under par.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by hikoki »

PeteProdge wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:25 pm
hikoki wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:19 pm What about replacing graphics on Continental Circus to make it appear like Outrun? Genius! :)
What about - if you're a Windows/Android/Open Pandora user - downloading CannonBall ('The Enhanced OutRun Engine') and editing the sprite ROMs (somehow) and music, so that it looks and sounds like a ZX Spectrum but plays virtually the same as the arcade?

https://github.com/djyt/cannonball/wiki
Whoah I like the idea of demaking arcade games and play them on a real arcade machine. Maybe that's already possible with Mame.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by PeteProdge »

hikoki wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:31 am
PeteProdge wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:25 pm What about - if you're a Windows/Android/Open Pandora user - downloading CannonBall ('The Enhanced OutRun Engine') and editing the sprite ROMs (somehow) and music, so that it looks and sounds like a ZX Spectrum but plays virtually the same as the arcade?

https://github.com/djyt/cannonball/wiki
Whoah I like the idea of demaking arcade games and play them on a real arcade machine. Maybe that's already possible with Mame.
I don't think it does that. It plays primarily on Windows and Android platforms (although can even run in your browser using Javascript, just supply Out Run's Rev B ROM files). It's a complete rewrite of OutRun in portable C++, so not for making a hacked ROM for an emulator or real machine to read.

People have got versions running over on the Amiga and the Nintendo Wii though.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by toot_toot »

I never understood why it was so slow when thinking about it you had to load in every single stage, even on the 128k version, so it's not as if memory should have been an issue. IIRC the same guys also programmed Enduro Racer which was not only faster, it had almost as much sprites on the screen but importantly you loaded all the levels in one go - even on the 48k Spectrum.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by druellan »

Alessandro wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:22 pm Out Run is not "painfully slow". The only real slowdown is in the gallery level. Curious how, out of 15 tracks, there are people who only think of that one :roll: It's enough playable as it is for me, no need to hack the code etc.
Well, looking at Enduro Racer, form the same authors, that game runs at about 20fps. OutRun is more complex, because the road lanes can change between levels. At the start, a very wide road, I can see about 9fps, on the second level (desert), narrow road, no lanes, little scenery, it can peak about 13fps, so perhaps the engine can be optimized a bit. Not sure if Enduro Racer was developed before or after Out Run.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by Stefan »

druellan wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:17 pm Well, looking at Enduro Racer, form the same authors, that game runs at about 20fps. OutRun is more complex, because the road lanes can change between levels. At the start, a very wide road, I can see about 9fps, on the second level (desert), narrow road, no lanes, little scenery, it can peak about 13fps, so perhaps the engine can be optimized a bit. Not sure if Enduro Racer was developed before or after Out Run.
Based on magazine reviews, Outrun is about half a year newer than Enduro Racer. Having a quick look at the RZX footage, it looks like someone told the team that OR'ed 'sprites' were no longer acceptable and that they /must/ be masked.
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Re: Make Outrun playable

Post by druellan »

Stefan wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:12 pm
druellan wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:17 pm Well, looking at Enduro Racer, form the same authors, that game runs at about 20fps. OutRun is more complex, because the road lanes can change between levels. At the start, a very wide road, I can see about 9fps, on the second level (desert), narrow road, no lanes, little scenery, it can peak about 13fps, so perhaps the engine can be optimized a bit. Not sure if Enduro Racer was developed before or after Out Run.
Based on magazine reviews, Outrun is about half a year newer than Enduro Racer. Having a quick look at the RZX footage, it looks like someone told the team that OR'ed 'sprites' were no longer acceptable and that they /must/ be masked.
Good catch, for sure that change might have an impact in performance, and seems that at the time Turbo Outrun was launched they manage to optimize the masked engine: 17fps with some slowdowns to 13fps on very crawled areas.
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