Rogue like for Zx Spectrum

[catmeows]

I wonder if anyone was meditating about a rogue-like for zx spectrum. If you did, please share your thougths
This is a brainstorming thread, do not let you stop by words like impossible, insane, inappropriate

[Alessandro]

Personally I don't like that kind of games very much, so don't count on me

That said, there is a rendition of Rogue by Mastertronic released in 1988, you might be interested in it:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=4224

[R-Tape]

This is a brainstorming thread, do not let you stop by words like impossible, insane, inappropriate

Hikokiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PeterJ]

How about Mystic Tower?

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=3351

[RWAC]

I'm sure I played a rogue-like many many years ago. It was a BASIC type in from a book. I don't remember too much about it unfortunately.

[akeley]

I'm a roguelike fanatic. I've spent quite some time working on this archival project: https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z

There are a few RLs for Spectrum:

Descending Dungeons
Devil's Castle
Escape From Cnossus
MysticTower
Ossuary
Rogue
Spectral Dungeons

Mostly recent ones. You can find them in the above-mentioned Archive RL. if you don't want to download the whole thing (it's ~25GB) you can pick individual files from inside the zip there. They're in the "Platforms" section with [zx] tag.

There are probably some more obscure ones from the old days, I'm also interested if anybody can expand this list.

[Morkin]

I'm a roguelike fanatic. I've spent quite some time working on this archival project: https://archive.org/details/ArchiveRL.7z

There are a few RLs for Spectrum:

Descending Dungeons
Devil's Castle
Escape From Cnossus
MysticTower
Ossuary
Rogue
Spectral Dungeons

Mostly recent ones. You can find them in the above-mentioned Archive RL. if you don't want to download the whole thing (it's ~25GB) you can pick individual files from inside the zip there. They're in the "Platforms" section with [zx] tag.

There are probably some more obscure ones from the old days, I'm also interested if anybody can expand this list.

Wow, that's amazing, I was gonna say that I was a Roguelike fan but I can't get close to competing with that... Zangband was probably my favourite.

Interestingly, compared to many of the earlier Rogue-likes - written on machines with lots more memory than our ZX - the Speccy attempts seem to have larger and more detailed graphics/sprites (e.g. 16x16 pixel). Personally, if I were attempting to write one (which I won't!) I'd be putting as many spare bytes towards getting as much variety of item types, monsters, combat etc. I'd be perfectly happy with 8x8 pixel UDG-style characters and character movement.

If levels are going to be randomly & procedurally generated I suppose you may only need to hold one in memory at once? Though it'd be nice to have a mix of level types and rooms (cave-types, labyrinth-types etc).

[toot_toot]

I'd love to see a conversion of the Temple of Apshai games!

[Einar Saukas]

There are a few RLs for Spectrum:

Descending Dungeons
Devil's Castle
Escape From Cnossus
MysticTower
Ossuary
Rogue
Spectral Dungeons

I will create a new tag in ZXDB to group these games!

Any others?

[akeley]

Interestingly, compared to many of the earlier Rogue-likes - written on machines with lots more memory than our ZX - the Speccy attempts seem to have larger and more detailed graphics/sprites (e.g. 16x16 pixel). Personally, if I were attempting to write one (which I won't!) I'd be putting as many spare bytes towards getting as much variety of item types, monsters, combat etc. I'd be perfectly happy with 8x8 pixel UDG-style characters and character movement.

If levels are going to be randomly & procedurally generated I suppose you may only need to hold one in memory at once? Though it'd be nice to have a mix of level types and rooms (cave-types, labyrinth-types etc).

I'm just a gamer, know nothing about coding. But yeah, some RLs operate on only the current level, as in, you can't go back to the previous one, and most of the Angband-likes don't have persistent levels, so if you go back it will be re-generated again randomly. So I guess that can save you some resources.

Sure, a "pure" RL does not need fancy gfx, it's all about gameplay, plus it helps with imagination-driven experience (like text adventures).

There's a yearly competition named 7DRL- seven days roguelike challenge. The aim is to write one from scratch in a week (some leeways on libraries are allowed). As you might imagine it's a short time so people cut corners and yet produce some amazing games. It's probably a good place to have a look for ideas. Another thing was a 1KBRL challenge, rather tiny room for maneuver here

[djnzx48]

There are a few RLs for Spectrum:

Descending Dungeons
Devil's Castle
Escape From Cnossus
MysticTower
Ossuary
Rogue
Spectral Dungeons

I will create a new tag in ZXDB to group these games!

Any others?

I guess these would count:
Rogue (a different one)
Vradark's Sphere

[Juan F. Ramirez]

I'm not a fan of these kind of games either, but Dragonsbane by Quicksilva might count?

[Morkin]

I'm not a fan of these kind of games either, but Dragonsbane by Quicksilva might count?

I'd class that as a 'dungeon crawler'. First person view, moving around a map laid out as a grid.

[stupidget]

Forest of Long Shadows had a rogue-esque element as the map was randomly generated with each game.

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=24421

It was type-in in Sinclair User and actually a pretty good game.

[Ralf]

Personally I was never a fan of roguelikes.

I could never understand my mate who in the late 90s played these games a lot.

At that time I haven't returned to retrogaming yet and was really keen on shining, modern, best possible
graphics in the games. And these roguelikes on PC were often made in text mode where & meant one monster
and @ another kind of monster They just looked ugly.

I also missed in roguelikes any real story, dialogues etc. It was just kill monsters, get on higher level, kill stronger monsters, repeat.

But here I promise to sit quiet and not spoil the party

[Morkin]

I will admit to being slightly addicted in the late 90s...

Weird considering everyone was marvelling at Doom, Quake etc., and I was only obsessed with watching those little ascii symbols moving around...

[akeley]

I'm not a fan of these kind of games either, but Dragonsbane by Quicksilva might count?

I'd class that as a 'dungeon crawler'. First person view, moving around a map laid out as a grid.

There's a big (mostly bitter) debate going on about what actualy classifies as a roguelike. The "purist" section argues that a real RL has to be turn-based, grid-based and has few other lesser intrinsics. To me the most important thing which defines this genre is interplay between permadeath and random generation. So if Dragonsbane has these qualities then I'd say it's a roguelike.

It was just kill monsters, get on higher level, kill stronger monsters, repeat.

Funny thing is, this description, also by proxy, actually applies to most of the "normal" games, and not roguelikes. Grind and leveling play very minor role in really good RLs. What really counts is ability to think ahead and adapt to random, emergent situations.

Personally I've spent nearly 3 decades playing normal games. I recall briefly toying with Rogue on ZX in the 90s, it was kind of addictive but I couldn't understand what it's all about and why am I not allowed to save? This was pre-internet so there was not much help around and anyway I looked forward to all the other swanky games pouring in (Amiga and DOS were at their prime then).

Then somewhere around 2012 I started to get bored of replaying the same template over and over, was looking for something different and somehow got slowly sucked into the roguelike world. First with some light JRLs, then Nethack, Crawl and then the other major RLs.

It was like taking the red pill. I've realized how stuck-up a lot of game design is and how we are not actually playing many of the games, just sort of coasting on autopilot, with minimal effort involved. My gaming mindset has changed completely and for a long time I actually could not play anything else, because it just felt boring and trite. I've slowly recovered , but only partially. I used to love classic CRPGs and strategy games but now can only play some of them. And I started getting much more into genres like arcade shoot'em ups, which require some skill and effort. Old school 8/16 bit action games also count

Long story short, RLs are not for everybody, but are definitely worth a go and are extremely rewarding, just require a change of old mindset and approach to be undertsood and enjoyed.

[Einar Saukas]

I will create a new tag in ZXDB to group these games!

Done:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... up_id=1043

If you notice any other game missing from this group, please let me know!

[Vampyre]

How about The Oracle's Cave? I think that's like a Rogue game, procedurally generated and the map revealed as you go along, but side-on rather than top-down.

[oblo]

How about The Oracle's Cave? I think that's like a Rogue game, procedurally generated and the map revealed as you go along, but side-on rather than top-down.

One of the best and very underrated ZX Spectrum games. The only caveat is the map generation takes some time -no surprise here- but the game itself was very addictive back in the day

Cheers.

[Lethargeek]

does Master of Magic count?

[Morkin]

From what I remember Master of Magic doesn't have randomly generated levels, just a fixed map, so some people might argue it's not quite the same, but as far as I'm concerned it looks and feels enough to be a Rogue-style game, so possibly.

I recall when I first played Oracle's Cave I struggled a bit as I kept getting killed, but later I realised the benefit of picking your rooms and battles carefully, getting a bit stronger, and it became quite enjoyable. I think there was a time limit on the quests though, which ultimately could be a bigger issue to deal with.

[akeley]

I'm afraid that the two key factors - randomness and permadeath - are non negotiable.

Otherwise, there are countless old RPGs which could be classifed as roguelikes (eg Ultima) but aren't really.

[Morkin]

I'm afraid that the two key factors - randomness and permadeath - are non negotiable.

Otherwise, there are countless old RPGs which could be classifed as roguelikes (eg Ultima) but aren't really.

Fair enough, if those are the aspects that defines a rogue-like then I guess games like MoM and Out of the Shadows (fixed map I think) aren't really rogue-likes.

By those definitions Oracle's Cave could be classed as one I think. I couldn't remember what happened if you 'finished' one of the quests on Oracle's Cave. I think you could move onto the next one, but I don't recall if your character retains their stats/items/possessions?

[Jbizzel]

Interestingly, compared to many of the earlier Rogue-likes - written on machines with lots more memory than our ZX - the Speccy attempts seem to have larger and more detailed graphics/sprites (e.g. 16x16 pixel). Personally, if I were attempting to write one (which I won't!) I'd be putting as many spare bytes towards getting as much variety of item types, monsters, combat etc. I'd be perfectly happy with 8x8 pixel UDG-style characters and character movement.

[mention]Morkin[/mention] I know you are a true fan (like me) from this comment.

variety of item types, monsters, combat is exactly what a RLs offer. And why so many so called spectrum RLs aren't RLs at all!

Many have 1!!! Potion. And it's a healing potion. And about 5 baddies in total. This is not rouge.

"You find a blue potion"
Drink potion.
"You are positioned"
"Jbizzel, level 1 warrior died"

Or

"The door is locked"
Open the door.
"It breaths on you. You died"

The original rouge game was something like 45k surely it could be made for the zx spectrum. Even if 128 only.

I want to try. But the amount of stuff in the game is daunting!

PS I'm not saying these other games aren't good. I'm just saying they are NOT rouge like.

UMoria is probably the game I have spent more time playing than any other. These games are insanely good if you are able to get past the impossible learning curve.

You are supposed to die, that is how you learn. But a game that tells you nothing, has no graphics, where every single key on the keyboard is a different action, and where you repeatedly die instantly, is off putting to most people.

Dark souls / Bloodborne are the heirs to the rouge like legacy. The game play is always risk management and the strategic use of death.