New WoS and ZXDB

This is the place for general discussion and updates about the ZXDB Database. This forum is not specific to Spectrum Computing.

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polomint
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by polomint »

Oh, and stop bitching, it's open db. Who cares who uses it? I coulda used it for months with my ZXiSeek app....
So far, so meh :)
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PeterJ
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by PeterJ »

[mention]polomint[/mention],

I'm very pleased that WoS are using ZXDB. It's excellent. There is no point in duplication of effort.

The issue is why try and hide it? I don't believe it's bitching (your words) to ask that you comply with an open source license, the only condition of which is to acknowledge that you have forked it. Richard s still blindly denying it. Do you believe this is the right approach? I don't know if this is due to misinformation, or if he has been told not to acknowledge it. Maybe you could ask him?

Both Einar and I have offered to work with the team at WoS so they can use the latest ZXDB.

None of us are getting any younger [mention]polomint[/mention]. I thought after the Vega disaster there may be a new approach to working together and truthfulness.

I would also remind you that ZXDB was only started when there was concern that WoS would close. This site (and the many others that use ZXDB - there seems to be the misguided belief that we at SC and ZXDB are the same thing) were started because WoS hadn't been updated for years, and the forum was going downhill.

I never expected this site to be as successful as it has been. It's success suggests it was needed.

[mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] has a right to request corrections when he is incorrectly slandered don't you think?
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Einar Saukas
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Einar Saukas »

For what it's worth, I never made personal attacks. I only posted facts, and I have always provided evidence to back it up.

However:
polomint wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:40 pmOh, and stop bitching, it's open db. Who cares who uses it? I coulda used it for months with my ZXiSeek app....
As I said before, I'm glad Lee Fogarty finally decided to use ZXDB. I hope he continues to do so. Everyone is welcome to use ZXDB (including your ZXiSeek of course). That's not the point.

The point is, I was personally accused of "stealing" data from Martijn's WoS, only 4 days before he released new WoS using ZXDB in disguise, while pretending otherwise and trying to take credit for everyone else's work. And he's still claiming that I'm lying about him using ZXDB, although now he only does it in his private WoS group at Facebook where he doesn't have to face proofs otherwise. Therefore I'm entitled to defend myself, right?
polomint
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by polomint »

Einar Saukas wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:06 pm The point is, I was personally accused of "stealing" data from Martijn's WoS, only 4 days before he released new WoS using ZXDB in disguise, while pretending otherwise and trying to take credit for everyone else's work

That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums. Sort it out somewhere else. I absolutely agree that personal accusations should be refuted if they need to be.

But arguing about an open db is essentially a waste of time (bar the excitement for bored retro err people).

We all like both WoSF and SC, let's not poison and feckup both!
So far, so meh :)
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by polomint »

I have proof...

https://bit.ly/2VI5ow1
So far, so meh :)
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Einar Saukas
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Einar Saukas »

polomint wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:29 pmThat is something else that has nothing to do with the forums.
The accusations against me were made in the WoS forum.

polomint wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:29 pmSort it out somewhere else.
Where?
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PeterJ
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by PeterJ »

I agree with you [mention]polomint[/mention] that we don't want to 'feck' things up.

The issue is that [mention]Einar Saukas[/mention] was slandered on a public forum, where else can he take his concerns.

All that needs to happen is for WoS to apologise to Einar, acknowledge usage of ZXDB and use the latest version. I'm sure all will then be fine with this issue and we can have a group hug (1 metre apart obviously!).
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ketmar
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by ketmar »

Einar Saukas wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:35 pm
polomint wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:29 pmSort it out somewhere else.
Where?
somewhere where nobody will see it, of course, so Lee and his team can continue accusing you of "stealing data". this would be "wise move", you know, because calling liar a liar publicly is soooo wrong.
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by polomint »

PeterJ wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:36 pm I agree with you @polomint that we don't want to 'feck' things up.

The issue is that @Einar Saukas was slandered on a public forum, where else can he take his concerns.

All that needs to happen is for WoS to apologise to Einar, acknowledge usage of ZXDB and use the latest version. . I'm sure all will then be fine with this issue and we can have a group hug (1 metre apart obviously!).
No, if EInar has been slandered then take it elsewhere,

As for WoSF and SC , just talk, and agree, it's not bloody hard to work out :)
So far, so meh :)
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PeterJ
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by PeterJ »

I don't understand where. If you were slandered in public would you discuss it privately and not expect a correction? I know I would.

I think we have done everything possible and offered to help WoS. I'm not sure what else we can do. You are friends with Richard. You could talk with him and arrange for him to call me.
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1024MAK
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by 1024MAK »

PeterJ wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:36 pm ... and we can have a group hug (1 metre apart obviously!).
Err, TWO metres apart unless you are using medical grade PPE mask, face guard, protective suit, gloves etc... :lol:

Mark
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PeterJ
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by PeterJ »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:43 pm
Err, TWO metres apart unless you are using medical grade PPE mask, face guard, protective suit, gloves etc... :lol:

Mark
Apologies [mention]1024MAK[/mention]. You are quite right. The 1M does not start until Saturday 4th July (England). By the way, who on earth came up with the idea of re-opening all the pubs on a Saturday....
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Einar Saukas
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Einar Saukas »

Back on topic...

Although new WoS contains an online update tool, very few changes have been made using it. Most recent changes were applied directly to the database in a hurry, as reaction to the evidences I have been posting here :)

New WoS was launched 18 days ago (June 15th). During this time, there were 12 relevant changes to individual entries in new WoS, except for "RZX files" added manually one by one (which is nonsense since they can be imported all at once from latest ZXDB version). They are listed here:

https://worldofspectrum.org/archive/whats_new

One of them was additional comments for an adventure called "Werner's Quest". ZXDB didn't change this comment since it was imported from Martijn's old WoS. So this is how it appears at SpectrumComputing for instance:

Image

On June 17th, new comments were added using new WoS online update tool, so it looked like this:

Image

Yesterday, when Fogarty Lee was in a hurry to revert all comments taken from ZXDB 2018, he ended up reverting his own changes too. This is how it appears in new WoS now:

Image

Notice how these additional comments vanished, although it still shows it was updated on June 17th. Ouch!


NOTE: Reproduced from my post at the WoS forum
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hitm4n
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by hitm4n »

This soap opera is amazing... I've got popcorn !
I don't have anything cool to put here, so i'll just be off now to see a priest with yeast stuck between his teeth and his friend called Keith who's a hairpiece thief...
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Rorthron
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Rorthron »

hitm4n wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:20 pm This soap opera is amazing... I've got popcorn !
Next Martijn's going to walk out of the shower and say it was all just a nightmare.
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Einar Saukas
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Einar Saukas »

This is interesting!

3D Monster Maze is one of my favorite ZX81 games. Russell Marks ported it to the Spectrum, here's a comment taken directly from Martijn's internal WoS file:

Code: Select all

J.K. Greye Software Ltd's {3D Monster Maze|J.K. Greye Software Ltd} for the ZX81 emulated on a 128K Spectrum.
This is how it appeared at the old WOS site:

Image

As I mentioned before, ZXDB added IDs to these references. This is the same comment from ZXDB 2018:

Code: Select all

J.K. Greye Software Ltd's {3D Monster Maze|J.K. Greye Software Ltd|0028617} for the ZX81 emulated on a 128K Spectrum.
As I also mentioned before, Fogarty Lee has just modified all comments to remove title and publisher, but keep IDs from ZXDB. This is the same comment right now, in today's new WoS CSV file:

Code: Select all

J.K. Greye Software Ltd's {software|0028617} for the ZX81 emulated on a 128K Spectrum.
And this is exactly how it looks right now at new WoS:

Image

It makes sense, right?

But...

Hold on...

Wait a minute...

Do you remember when I mentioned, in my original post, that IDs in Martijn's old WoS stopped at 28187? Martijn's old WoS never gave IDs to any ZX81 title! Also new WoS doesn't even contain any ZX81 titles! Where did this ID number come from???

It turns out this is a new ZXDB ID for the original ZX81 version. You can find this ID in all sites using ZXDB content. Give it a try at SpectrumComputing:

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry.php?id=0028617

Or ZXInfo:

https://zxinfo.dk/details/0028617

Or ZX-Art:

http://zxart.ee/route/lang:eng/type:pro ... Id:0028617

Or Spectrum 2.0:

http://spectrum20.org/games/28617

Interestingly, Lee Fogarty explicitly stated he would never use new ZXDB IDs. So how can we explain ZXDB IDs misteriously appearing inside new WoS?

I guess we will never know...


NOTE: Reproduced from my post at the WoS forum
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Einar Saukas
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Einar Saukas »

OK, I'm tired of playing wack-a-mole** where I point out a new evidence and Lee Fogarty rushes to hide it.

I'm busy now, but tomorrow I will post one final, more compelling evidence and be done with it.

Unless I'm given new reason to get back here, that is.


** Thanks to the people at SpectrumComputing forum for suggesting this term


NOTE: Reproduced from my post at the WoS forum
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Mike Davies
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Mike Davies »

polomint wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:29 pm That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums.
You're obviously confused. This is the Spectrum Computing form. This section is ZXDB discussion, so this thread - about the use of ZXDB on WoS - is perfectly on topic.

The WoS forum, too, is even more so on topic. Remember when Fogarty said his development plan for WoS was to integrate the WoS forum with the rest of the site, so your login details would also be used when you submit a change? That indicates that the intention of new WoS is to not have a "separate forum". And WoS is using ZXDB. Highlighting that on the WoS forum is perfectly on topic -- heck Einar's post is in the Updates section -- the section of the forum that talks about updates to the World of Spectrum archive.

Really, you are confused, @polomint.
Why are Fogarty and Chandler keeping quiet? Why don't they offer a clear explanation of how it is all these details noticed by Einar are completely coincidental, and not taken from ZXDB? Don't you find that odd?
I, for one, praise Einar for making his point publicly, and standing his ground. The evidence is irrefutable -- you must already recognise that.
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1024MAK
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by 1024MAK »

For the record, I have recently received some communications.

It was a private communication, so I am not at liberty to reproduce it here. And no please don’t ask. No one has ever managed to prise any private information out of me in the last 25 years, so don’t waste your or my time.

However, I think everyone in this topic has made the comments they want. So now may be the time to let this topic go quiet.

Mark
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by moroz1999 »

Mike Davies wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:09 pm Note: SC doesn't use Apache to serve up static assets, and I believe it's using PHP-FPM -- which is why SC is still quick loading when dealing with traffic levels multiple times higher than what currently takes WoS down.
Is it really so? As far as I can see, at least logo (which is a truely static asset) is being served through Apache. And anyway PHP-FPM is also working through apache process, so it cannot be faster than apache itself.
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Pegaz »

Mike Davies wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:43 pm
polomint wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:29 pm That is something else that has nothing to do with the forums.
You're obviously confused. This is the Spectrum Computing form. This section is ZXDB discussion, so this thread - about the use of ZXDB on WoS - is perfectly on topic.

The WoS forum, too, is even more so on topic. Remember when Fogarty said his development plan for WoS was to integrate the WoS forum with the rest of the site, so your login details would also be used when you submit a change? That indicates that the intention of new WoS is to not have a "separate forum". And WoS is using ZXDB. Highlighting that on the WoS forum is perfectly on topic -- heck Einar's post is in the Updates section -- the section of the forum that talks about updates to the World of Spectrum archive.

Really, you are confused, @polomint.
Why are Fogarty and Chandler keeping quiet? Why don't they offer a clear explanation of how it is all these details noticed by Einar are completely coincidental, and not taken from ZXDB? Don't you find that odd?
I, for one, praise Einar for making his point publicly, and standing his ground. The evidence is irrefutable -- you must already recognise that.
He's not confused at all, Mike.
And he certainly didn't come here to answer the questions you asked.
So, you're just wasting your time.
1024MAK wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:19 pm
However, I think everyone in this topic has made the comments they want. So now may be the time to let this topic go quiet.

Mark
Yeah, that would be really appropriate, wouldn't it Mark?
Just wonder who would be happiest man, if that whole debate fell silent and things are swept under the rug...
You only have the right to guess once. ;)
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1024MAK
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by 1024MAK »

[mention]Pegaz[/mention]

Hey, I’m not on anyone’s side and I certainly have no intention of being anyone’s ‘boy’ or of being ‘played’. I make my own decisions based on the information available to me.

Hence elsewhere I said:
I wrote:You know what Einar has said publicly on both forums.
As an observer, it does seem to me that he does make a very convincing case.
This is not my forum and I’m just an ordinary user here. Just as I’m just an ordinary user over on WoS.

I would prefer the community to work together rather than against one another, that’s all.

If you want to carry on talking about WoS in this topic, that’s up to you.

Mark
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Mike Davies
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

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moroz1999 wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:30 pm
Mike Davies wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:09 pm Note: SC doesn't use Apache to serve up static assets, and I believe it's using PHP-FPM -- which is why SC is still quick loading when dealing with traffic levels multiple times higher than what currently takes WoS down.
Is it really so? As far as I can see, at least logo (which is a truely static asset) is being served through Apache. And anyway PHP-FPM is also working through apache process, so it cannot be faster than apache itself.
errr... no. PHP-FPM doesn't run through an apache process. It's a standalone process manager. Once you're on the process manager stage, you'd also realise there's no point running Apache, and instead run NginX. And Nginx handles concurrent requests a heck of a lot better than Apache, lightweight and faster. And only requests that need to be handled by PHP are proxied to the PHP-FPM process, and scaling horizontally becomes just a config tweak in Nginx.
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moroz1999
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by moroz1999 »

Mike Davies wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:57 pm errr... no. PHP-FPM doesn't run through an apache process. It's a standalone process manager. Once you're on the process manager stage, you'd also realise there's no point running Apache, and instead run NginX. And Nginx handles concurrent requests a heck of a lot better than Apache, lightweight and faster. And only requests that need to be handled by PHP are proxied to the PHP-FPM process, and scaling horizontally becomes just a config tweak in Nginx.
Ok, PHP-FPM can be run on nginx as well, that's true. What I meant is that PHP-FPM is not an HTTP server, and it requires one.
Is nginx being used on SC? As far as I can see it is not. There is Apache's header in responses.

So I just don't see how serving files through PHP-FPM and then through Apache can be more effective than just through Apache. I'm not telling something is slow here, just wanted to clarify.
Last edited by moroz1999 on Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike Davies
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Re: New WoS and ZXDB

Post by Mike Davies »

1024MAK wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:19 pm For the record, I have recently received some communications.
For the record, no-one from the WoS admin team has responded fully to Einar's concerns in the same manner Einar raised them. And that same team is quite content to slander Einar and his work at every turn.

That same team can pull its finger out and adequately responds to Einar's concerns in the exact same place he's raised them. Einar has even given them the choice of whether to do it on WoS or here.
1024MAK wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:19 pm However, I think everyone in this topic has made the comments they want. So now may be the time to let this topic go quiet.

Errr, no. This topic goes quiet when all of Einar's concerns have been fully dealt with to his satisfaction.
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