What do you now know many years later

General software. From trouble with the Banyan Tree to OCP Art Studio, post any general software chat here. Could include game challenges...
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uglifruit
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by uglifruit »

Alessandro wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:07 pm "Automata" is the plural of αὐτόματον, which in ancient Greek means "something acting (ματον) by itself (αὐτό)". I pronounce it as in ancient Greek, following the Erasmian convention which is commonly accepted here for academic use here: "ou (as in "loud") -TOH-mah-tah".
My ancient Greek is crap. I can only just book a hotel room with an ensuite bathroom, and order drinks at the bar in ancient Greece.
Last edited by uglifruit on Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Morkin
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Morkin »

Alessandro wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:07 pm
Morkin wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:46 am That's new to me too. I used to pronounce it "AW-toe-MATE-ah", until I heard Paul J on the Spectrum Show pronouncing it differently... :shock:
"Automata" is the plural of αὐτόματον, which in ancient Greek means "something acting (ματον) by itself (αὐτό)". I pronounce it as in ancient Greek, following the Erasmian convention which is commonly accepted here for academic use here: "ou (as in "loud") -TOH-mah-tah".
As I recall, I originally couldn't decide whether to pronounce it like we say "automaton" in English (with the stress on the 'o'), or "automation" (one letter difference but with the stress on the 'a' part). Mind you, I often pronounce things incorrectly so this would just be another one.. :lol:
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by presh »

Ralf wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:37 pm
8 is transparent / unchanged - so if you do PRINT INK 7; PAPER 8; "SOMETHING", the text will have white INK but the existing PAPER colour of each cell will remain unchanged
Wouldn't it be the same as simply PRINT INK 7; "SOMETHING" ?
No, because it will use the current paper colour for the background.

So if you had a red screen (PAPER 2: CLS), then set PAPER 0 somewhere down the line, then did PRINT INK 7; "SOMETHING" you would see SOMETHING in white ink on a black background instead of red.

(click images for legible versions!)

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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by presh »

I thought software developers used to develop on the actual machine, albeit with disk drives / microdrives (to reduce the ball-ache of reloading during Z80 crashes/debugging), and an assembler etc. I imagined that was where all the +3s were, I rarely saw them in the wild!

I now understand (from Bob Pape's book, I think) that they used higher-powered computers to assemble the code, then flashed it into the Speccy's memory via the I/O port at the back. Neat!

(It's a moot point for me though, as I was too young for even a paper round nor any form of income to afford me such toys!)
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Alessandro »

uglifruit wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:12 pm My ancient Greek is crap. I can only just book a hotel room with an ensuite bathroom, and order drinks at the bar in ancient Greece.
Don't worry, my knowledge of ancient Greek is even more limited than that: I can just understand words and expressions like ti estì, entelechéia, pantà rhei, arché and a few others. :)
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by RMartins »

A few months back, I found out that a friend of mine in chuckie egg, never jumped to the ladders, because he thought that it didn't work.
And I was pretty sure that I did it all the time, so I showed him how to do it.

The trick (that I assumed everybody knew) is to jump to the ladder and while "flying" over it, press up or down, so that it grabs the ladder.

I was shocked that he could even fully enjoy the game, without using that feature :)
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by cmal »

RMartins wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:56 pm A few months back, I found out that a friend of mine in chuckie egg, never jumped to the ladders, because he thought that it didn't work.
And I was pretty sure that I did it all the time, so I showed him how to do it.

The trick (that I assumed everybody knew) is to jump to the ladder and while "flying" over it, press up or down, so that it grabs the ladder.

I was shocked that he could even fully enjoy the game, without using that feature :)
That's another thing I only found out recently. Did not know this back in the day!
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Joefish »

Alessandro wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:15 pm
uglifruit wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:12 pm My ancient Greek is crap. I can only just book a hotel room with an ensuite bathroom, and order drinks at the bar in ancient Greece.
Don't worry, my knowledge of ancient Greek is even more limited than that: I can just understand words and expressions like ti estì, entelechéia, pantà rhei, arché and a few others. :)
I've had a plate of chips in Modern Greece that tasted like they were cooked in Ancient Grease.
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by cmal »

smurphboy wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:36 pm
GreenCard wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:16 pm I've played that game to death since I was a kid, and until now I've been totally unaware of this! Any idea what the code is? I must see this inaccessible area! I *must* see it! :shock:
AMIGA in the bottom left. There is a sign next to a dead body and you can see the teleport on the next screen but only the code will let you in. You need it if there is a core part in that section.
I have the original cassette and while scanning stuff today I noticed that someone wrote all the codes inside the inlay. It must've been my brother wrote them. He was very into Starquake.

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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Cosmium »

Turtle_Quality wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:37 am I ordered my Spectrum the day after it's launch, and so got it pretty early. When I asked Quicksilver at a ZX Microfair if they had any games ready, they offered to buy my Spectrum as they still didn't have one ! But since kids were forced to write their own or wait in 1982, I wonder how many famous software developers started with that push...
I also ordered my 16K Spectrum shortly after launch and used the time in the preceding weeks (months?) before its arrival to eagerly plan out my own versions of the arcade games of the day... in an old school book no less!
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by vanpeebles »

presh wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:02 pm I thought software developers used to develop on the actual machine, albeit with disk drives / microdrives (to reduce the ball-ache of reloading during Z80 crashes/debugging), and an assembler etc. I imagined that was where all the +3s were, I rarely saw them in the wild!

I now understand (from Bob Pape's book, I think) that they used higher-powered computers to assemble the code, then flashed it into the Speccy's memory via the I/O port at the back. Neat!

(It's a moot point for me though, as I was too young for even a paper round nor any form of income to afford me such toys!)
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Alone Coder »

presh wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:02 pm I thought software developers used to develop on the actual machine, albeit with disk drives / microdrives (to reduce the ball-ache of reloading during Z80 crashes/debugging), and an assembler etc.
In exUSSR, most software was written on the actual machine, with a disk drive. Even in the 2000's, having a PC, people continued to use native tools inside emulators, cross-assemblers were rare until circa 2008.
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Ralf »

Quite recently I read a comment that Clive Sinclair becoming sir Clive Sinclair wasn't as big, exceptional deal as sometimes presented.

Clive was knighted ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Bachelor ). "Knight" is the lowest possible rank in all this aristocracy system. It doesn't pass to your children. A kid born to a lord is a lord himself, a kid born to a knight isn't.

Each year several hundreds of people are knighted, including actors, musicians etc. Yes, it's something to be proud of but not that rare and exceptional as I believed being a kid.
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Guesser »

Joefish wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:01 am I once got offered a choice of redundancy or moving to a former telephone exchange building, working in the room where the old mechanical exchange used to reside. A huge place for a small team with great high ceilings, but the only windows were narrow slits some 3m up the wall as it was really the basement and half a floor above. Thanks but... cheque please!
Lovely parquet floor though?
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Joefish »

Ralf wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:01 pm Quite recently I read a comment that Clive Sinclair becoming sir Clive Sinclair wasn't as big, exceptional deal as sometimes presented.

Clive was knighted ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Bachelor ). "Knight" is the lowest possible rank in all this aristocracy system. It doesn't pass to your children. A kid born to a lord is a lord himself, a kid born to a knight isn't.

Each year several hundreds of people are knighted, including actors, musicians etc. Yes, it's something to be proud of but not that rare and exceptional as I believed being a kid.
It's actually among the highest honours the Queen can bestow on a civilian. The ancient layers of aristocratic titles don't really have anything to do with the modern system of honours. These honours are dished out regularly, mostly in a batch in the New Year, and these are all the possible awards. But a Knighthood is the only one that conveys a title, 'Sir' / 'Dame'. The others are just titles you'd put after your name. (Though there are also ranks of Knights; 'Knight of the Garter' being the top, reserved for the likes of Churchill).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11990088 scroll down to 'Types of Honours'.
The guy who hired me for my current job was recently made an MBE. Supposedly for 'Services to Business', but really the Queen just thought it was such a smart move to give me a job it deserved a reward... :lol:

Lordships are political appointments, since traditionally (though not 100% recently) it entitled you to sit in the House of Lords and have a say on laws being passed. There are both 'Life' and 'Hereditary' peerages. Most 'Lords' made today are appointed as reward for political service and are only made life peers; their children do not inherit the title.

As for Dukes, Barons, etc. most are inherited titles from old families. There are loads of such titles where the line has died out; the Queen hands them out at royal marriages and they become hereditary if the couple aren't too inbred to have children of their own, but they're largely meaningless. They don't entitle you to any property or land you don't otherwise own.

There are also what are called 'Manorial Titles'; these are the ones you can buy and sell if you want to call yourself 'Lord of Barford' or something. Some are sold as an 'extra' to go with a big country house, but others come up when the owner has had to sell off their ancestral land, sold off the family manor house, tried to hang on to the title, but run out of cash on the horses again and would rather lose the title than have their legs broken:
https://www.manorialcounselltd.co.uk/lo ... ip-titles/
But they don't make you 'Lord Barford' or 'Lord' anything, you're just 'Derrick F*ckwit, Lord of Barford'.
Last edited by Joefish on Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Alessandro »

Ralf wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:01 pm Quite recently I read a comment that Clive Sinclair becoming sir Clive Sinclair wasn't as big, exceptional deal as sometimes presented.

Clive was knighted ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Bachelor ). "Knight" is the lowest possible rank in all this aristocracy system. It doesn't pass to your children. A kid born to a lord is a lord himself, a kid born to a knight isn't.

Each year several hundreds of people are knighted, including actors, musicians etc. Yes, it's something to be proud of but not that rare and exceptional as I believed being a kid.
Coming to think of that, in the Italian press there is a long-standing misunderstanding that qualifies as "baronetti", i.e. baronets, anyone who can be addressed as "sir", including knights. The mistake dates at least as far as 1965, when the Beatles were awarded the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. The Italian press reported then that the Fab Four received the title of "baronetti", and this has been repeated ever since. Even when Uncle Clive was knighted, he was addressed by Italian journalists as a "baronetto". Being aware of this, I stated in the Spectrumpedia, p. 33, that he received the title of "cavaliere", i.e. "knight"; a similar honorific title, "cavaliere del lavoro" (lit. "knight of work"), is also bestowed by the Italian Republic, and like knighthood, it is not hereditary.

Even recently, the misuse of "baronetto" continues, as it can be seen in this recent article taken from a major Italian daily newspaper; by the way, even Moore's nickname has been erroneously reported as "Colonnello Tom" instead of "Captain Tom", probably due to his recent promotion to Honorary Colonel.

At least the authoritative Enciclopedia Treccani states here that "baronetto", from English "baronet", is a "hereditary noble title".
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by TMD2003 »

Joefish wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:59 pm There are also what are called 'Manorial Titles'; these are the ones you can buy and sell if you want to call yourself 'Lord of Barford' or something:
https://www.manorialcounselltd.co.uk/lo ... ip-titles/
But they don't make you 'Lord Barford' or 'Lord' anything, you're just 'Derrick F*ckwit, Lord of Barford'.
Or Louis Theroux, Duke of Mansfield.

I'll have to dig through my old recordings of his 1990s programs and see if he did actually buy the title...
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Joefish »

Baronys and 'Lord of the Manor' Lordships can be bought and sold. But the former go for hundreds of thousands. The latter several thousand depending on popularity. For instance, Chris Eubank genuinely was 'Lord of the Manor of Brighton' having paid £45000 for it (but was forced to put it up for sale when he was declared bankrupt!)

I'm pretty sure Louis Theroux couldn't have bought himself a legitimate Dukedom.

Most websites offering cheaper titles are no more valid than those 'name a star' scams, or those 'Prestigious PhDs' handed out to the likes of Gillian 'Sh*traker' McKeith or Ben Goldacre's dead cat. You're paying hand-over-fist for a meaningless piece of paper and maybe - just maybe - if you're really lucky - a few square inches of mud in a field somewhere.
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by MrBlaz »

I'm amazed at spechums like you having so deep knowledge about Knight lore.
Wait....
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Joefish »

MrBlaz wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:14 pm I'm amazed at spechums like you having so deep knowledge about Knight lore.
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akeley
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by akeley »

Gosh, it's a great thing that we're on a retro computing site with "no politics" rule, and I don't have to say what I think about the "honours" system 8-)
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by MrBlaz »

Joefish wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:36 pm
MrBlaz wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:14 pm I'm amazed at spechums like you having so deep knowledge about Knight lore.
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I know, sorry :D
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by RWAC »

Ralf wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:01 pm Quite recently I read a comment that Clive Sinclair becoming sir Clive Sinclair wasn't as big, exceptional deal as sometimes presented.
I bet he doesn't even know how to ride a horse.
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by Joefish »

I never got the hang of the canter either, but the riding centre certainly knew how to charge!
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Re: What do you now know many years later

Post by druellan »

presh wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:02 pm I now understand (from Bob Pape's book, I think) that they used higher-powered computers to assemble the code, then flashed it into the Speccy's memory via the I/O port at the back. Neat!
Same here. It was interesting to discover Manic Miner was programmed that way, using a TR-80 if I'm not mistaken, an expensive machine, and I was really not aware of the widespread use of the microdrive in the industry.
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