ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Stuff for sale or wanted, hopefully MEGA+@rare!!!, or commercial projects
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vintage-mike
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ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by vintage-mike »

My company has recently made some titles for the ZX Spectrum 48K available on itch.io

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When I released these titles elsewhere earlier in the year (which I had created during an unexpected career break in Spring 2020...) I did so with no great ambition other than to cover the small cost of making them available - and I'm hugely grateful for the interest there has been. But with hindsight, even that modest ambition has been a huge, as yet unsuccessful challenge - and as we head into uncertain times once more, it can feel a little like 'deja vu all over again'. I hope to have some new releases completed in the new year, this is a niche interest - but one which I know has an enthusiastic and supportive community behind it - so while it can be a challenge to turn the facebook likes and overwhelmingly positive feedback into views, or even downloads - if you're looking for some trivial distraction from the current woes of the world, power up your favourite 8-bit rubber-keyed technological wonder, or emulator of choice and please feel free to take a look
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by vintage-mike »

TBH mate I think you're just pricing these a bit ambitiously for what they are.
Firstly these are not just tzx or tap files, they also include fully featured standalone applications for Windows and Linux including CRT simulation, running inside a custom emulation engine which I also developed - so there's actually a lot going on here

Obviously they'll stand or fail on their own merits - that's a risk I'm knowingly taking - so far the reception has been positive, but, related to my previous post, my only ambition was - or - is to cover the cost of making them available - that requires a web presence of some kind and for other reasons setting up a company to act as the entity through which to do that. Being completely candid, the admin costs for that alone will ensure this will fail if I ask anything less. My hope was / is that enough people who enjoy retro gaming would not be averse to spending what amounts to less than £5 (including VAT, sales taxes and platform fees, payment processing etc) on their hobby to make this viable. My experience so far is that they have been well received by those who have - if it turns out that is not the case or is genuinely unaffordable or doesn't represent sufficient value then I have misjudged the market (for want of a better phrase) and there is no requirement for these - which would be disappointing, but there is very little I can do about that. The main issue at the moment is actually less of pricing but more of exposure given that I think they might have got one or possibly even two views this week (I can't quite remember... :) )
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by vintage-mike »

Your costs are not the purchaser's problem.
Of course not - and that's absolutely not what I was saying -I was simply offering a candid explanation (which I did not have to give) for the reason why, much as I would like to, I cannot afford to make them available for less. I've chosen to present them in a particular way, which is why they come with their own PC versions and CRT emulation - to me that's an essential part of the art or the appeal - and I wanted to provide them as a completed work. I welcome any criticism - I don't know if you've tried them, but I suppose my only concern would be that you might be comparing something you haven't tried to other things which aren't the same.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by PeterJ »

Mike is fully entitled to sell for what he wishes. The market dictates the right price. If he doesn't sell many then maybe he will look at his business model. There are so many free games for the Spectrum, that to sell something it needs to be really special.

I do agree though, that a five minute demo version is always a nice idea.

Regards post sale donations, I have no experience of this directly, but would assume the percentage who would donate is low. We are very lucky here to have some users who keep the site going by regular donations, but it's probably 0.5 to 1% of the audience. I guess donations based software is probably the same.

Mike does not deserve the hard time you are giving him. It's his choice, and he is mentioning his games in the commercial section. If you don't like them, you can just move along surely.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by PeterJ »

I am agreeing with you in some of the points you make [mention]Rev_Stuart_Campbell[/mention]. A playable demo would be useful so the quality can be judged.

I'm not sure I would take comments like not not looking worth as it constructive and positive, but maybe that's just me.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by PeterJ »

??? You replied to me? I was responding to your comments to me..
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by PeterJ »

I think maybe you not understanding my point. Don't worry about it. Let's move on!
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by bobs »

In my experience the majority of Spectrum owners will only play 80s games - there’s such a huge choice and it’s what you remember/loved/nostalgia. Of those that do play modern releases the majority will not pay for them. That’s just how it is, given there’s already so much choice from the original era. It’s not even a ‘race to the bottom’ of prices - the bottom was set years ago when tap/tzx files became freely available.

I don’t think the fact that you’ve written nice emulators to go with them will sway anybody - everybody already has their choice setup for playing these games, and you’re probably unlikely to convert anybody to the cause because of it.

What it all comes down to is this - Do you want people to play your games? If the answer is yes, then don’t charge - make it free and accept donations - something itch.io handles very well. If you force a charge then the downloads will be far fewer - even if you provide a limited free demo. I ran a website for my games for many years, and only in a couple of those did I ever cover the site fees.

You’re doing it for the love of creation.



Strange fact… the musician Steve Wilson didn’t have his work on streaming sites as he felt it devalued it. As did Prince. When Prince died Steve played some of his songs as a tribute in his live gigs - but found that nobody knew what they were because they couldn’t stream them. Steve’s music is now on streaming sites as he preferred to know they were being heard.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by bobs »

Rev_Stuart_Campbell wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:08 pm It's a real shame itch.io doesn't show download numbers publicly, I think it'd be really helpful to authors.
I’d be happy to publish my download stats, and sometimes do - Farmer Jack and the Hedge Monkeys (as you recently mentioned in your top 100) has had 97 downloads from itch in the last four or so years - but it’s never the whole story if your games are also hosted elsewhere (which is often the case for Spectrum games) to which you don’t have analytics. FJATHM also had one payed download across that period, and 5 cassette sales in the past year.
Rev_Stuart_Campbell wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:08 pm PS You know what 80s game I'd like to play and would pay money for etc etc 😄😉
Just the one?!
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by PeterJ »

So no exciting holiday or fast cars on the proceeds then [mention]bobs[/mention]!
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by bobs »

PeterJ wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:35 pm So no exciting holiday or fast cars on the proceeds then @bobs!
I can assure you there is no red Ferrari in my garage!

One of the best things to have is a back catalogue. The Rev mentioned FJATHM recently, and there was also big spike in downloads for lumASCII a couple of weeks ago as it was mentioned on a video twitch review thingy, which resulted in a couple of sales. Both those were written many years ago.

My biggest success this year was my ZX81 game “Pandemic”, another old game which got attention for sadly obvious reasons.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by vintage-mike »

Well that stirred up a little more controversy than I was expecting :) - at the end of the day these are just games, they're supposed to be fun, I pitched them at a price which I think is fair and hopefully for most won't break the bank or cause people too much distress. Indeed to quote [mention]Rev_Stuart_Campbell.[/mention] from an earlier thread when I first released them on my site...
The price is fine but asking folk for money on the back of a single static screenshot, hmm.
There are play-through videos showcasing how bad I am at playing my own games - and, fortunately there are also some much more competent examples on Modern Retro ZX-Gaming. I used to buy games on tape for more than £5 when £5 was, well, £5, based only on some screenshots in a magazine - how times change - now there are not only colour screenshots but if you want to, you can just cut out the middle-man and watch someone else play it for you too :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by patters »

You mention that your overheads setting up a company for the specific purpose of hosting the games and selling them are the driver for the price. That does seem a tad overkill.

Like Bob, I'll share my own itch.io stats here to give you some context. My own simple games (both free) written in BASIC have the following download counts:
Artillery: 422 downloads in 20 months
Line: 252 downloads in 16 months

I notice Artillery occasionally gets surges of referrals from Facebook but, since I won't have anything to do with any Zuckerberg-run companies, I don't know how. Facebook hides the referring URL because that's the kind of company they are.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by vintage-mike »

You mention that your overheads setting up a company for the specific purpose of hosting the games and selling them are the driver for the price. That does seem a tad overkill.
I guess that depends - having run a successful audio software business I'm familiar with publishing software and content online, and its often wise in any business venture to have some useful kind of separation of concerns (and / or liabilities) which a separate entity such as a company can provide. But aside from that, there are also administrative issues, for example I don't currently code-sign the Windows binaries, but increasingly this is becoming a requirement - not just to reassure users about the provenance of the software - but even for Windows to permit it to be installed or even downloaded.

Having been through that process before, my experience has been that its is easier to obtain the necessary permissions and certificates as a company than an individual (that in itself can be a significant overhead depending upon the level of certification required). While my aims are fairly modest, a company also provides a more flexible option to explore other possibilities in future, if the software alone is not self-financing. I think its important to realise that there are sales, as far as I know people are happy with the product and I am more than willing to help address any issues if not. - But, the principle problem for any small business is visibility. (Prior to this thread :) ) I was seeing only minimal views on itch and very low traffic despite spending most of my time posting on forums, subreddits, facebook groups etc etc - it began to feel like shouting in the wilderness at times.

It still may be the case that there just aren't sufficient numbers - its a niche activity, and it generally holds true (in my experience) that a 2 - 5% conversion rate is normal for just about anything (and would seem to be backed up by the figures available). And if at every point where a decision is required to continue down the road to a purchase lets say 95 - 98% of people drop out, then you need a lot of traffic in order to achieve even a few sales or downloads.

That's actually one of the other reasons why I provide not just the tzx and tap files, but audio files, and standalone applications - it might seem redundant, you can use your own emulator etc, or a retro gaming linux distro or whatever, but that can be just another layer of "I can't be bothered" - with these games you can load them onto your vintage computer if you want the full experience, you can start them up on your PC and play exactly the same games with minimal hassle if you don't, or you can use an emulator if you have a preferred setup (my personal favourite is Spectaculator on Windows but there are other options)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by Daveysloan »

On a slight tangent on the subject of itch download numbers.

The most recent game we put on there has had 555 views & 168 downloads, which is lovely as the game was only really made to give my mate a bit of a laugh. That folk have played & enjoyed it is amazing to me.

However on the flip side, 70% of the people who are interested enough to click on the link to a Speccy homebrew on itch in the first place go..."sure, the game's free, but nah, not worth wasting 41k hard drive space on" when they see it. :lol:
Last edited by Daveysloan on Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

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Daveysloan wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:33 pm However on the flip side, 70% of the people who are interested enough to click on the link to a Speccy homebrew on itch in the first place go..."sure, the game's free, but nah, not worth wasting 41k hard drive space on" when they see it. :lol:
A 30% view->download conversion rate is really good. However, IMHO I think the main reason most people don't download games is probably that they don't want to waste time trying a game that might turn out to be boring. I think in these days of instant gratification, a game really has to be exactly what someone is looking for in order for them to bother playing it.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by FFoulkes »

I find it strange, that people even still sell 8-bit games for money today.
Should all be GPL stuff by now. fuse is. My browser is. Even my whole OS is. :lol:

Of course anybody can sell, what he or she has the right to sell. I just find it strange, that people seem to accept paying for such tiny programs today.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by SteveSmith »

Rev_Stuart_Campbell wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:50 pm I really like Turmoil and would happily cough up a few quid for a download of this, but I'm not paying £19.50 (including shipping to the UK) for a physical cassette I have no use for. (And which doesn't even actually mention giving you a digital version with it.)
And why would someone design their website so you can't share links to their products?
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by filipe.veiga »

Hi Stuart,
Depthcharge will be FREE and with source code available.
It's not yet available because the magazine is not printed yet. It will available in itchio (WITH source code included) as soon the first owners receive their magazines.
Nevertheless I do not feel obligated to distribute whatever what I do in the way you or anyone else think I should do. If I do a ZX Spectrum game, it's because I want. I do whatever I want WITH my time. And yes I'm not getting rich on anything I do in retro. I work as an IT consultant that provides the money I need. I do this FOR FUN. But physical things cost money. Tapes cost money. Printed magazines cost a lot. Paper prices are rising every month.. Every month! Should I pay from my pocket and give free magazines? There's no free lunch.
People should stop judging other. You don't know me.
And I hope you like Depthcharge when it's out. Free for all with source code.

PJ - Removed quoting to improve readability.
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by SteveSmith »

filipe.veiga wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:28 pm People should stop judging other. You don't know me.
I don't know if there's some kind of Ghostbusters 2 sludge currently running through these forums causing everyone to start arguing, or that people are reading far more into posts than intended. All that Stu said was "I love Depthcharge and really fancied playing this, but it appears that to get it you have to spend 31 Euros on buying a magazine in Portugese that I can't read and don't want. " which AFAICS is a fair opinion, and not a slight against anyone. We all have opinions on what we're prepared to spend on something, and voicing them doesn't mean anyone is being criticised or judged. :)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by filipe.veiga »

SteveSmith, opinions are fair at a certain point. But assuming people who charge some pennys for a game they worked on just to get rich from "retro", that is a bit exaggerated, imho. I don't voice that kind of opinion regarding people I don't know. When I don't agree on how they sell or distribute or the price they give, I just move along. Life is too short to judge others based on my limited perception of their choices or their lives... And as I said before, this is not even the case of Depthcharge because it will be available for everyone as soon the magazine is sent to their owners. Not sure why people assumed I was charging the digital download or even why my magazine was brought to this discussion in the first place. Anyone can send an email to me asking about the game. I would reply exactly what I wrote here. So imho it's not a fair opinion, SteveSmith. BTW, all my listings from the other portugUese magazine I also write too (Espectro Magazine), are available in my itchio (https://filipeveiga.itch.io/)
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by vintage-mike »

I don't know if there's some kind of Ghostbusters 2 sludge currently running through these forums causing everyone to start arguing, or that people are reading far more into posts than intended.
I feel like I accidentally created a rather contentious debate by starting this thread. That was definitely not my intention and I apologise. Fundamentally this is about games, games that should be trivial and fun, a diversion, (especially at the present time) from some of the more serious issues. I guess my mood was / has been a little pessimistic - more a symptom of current times than anything else (but that's a whole other topic in itself).
In the end, its simply that I've put some content out there, things I put a lot of time, creative energy (and enjoyment) into making (for the purely selfish reason that I wanted them and they didn't exist. As is the way with developing any software, I literally willed them into existence :) ) - but I hope other people discover them and like them too - that's all
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Re: ZX Spectrum Games on itch.io

Post by stupidget »

I think it’s great that you, and several others, are spending hours and hours making brand new Speccy games. It keeps the scene alive and will hopefully get a new generation interested in our favourite little rubber keyed slab of fun.
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