Next after a year of ownership

[Jbizzel]

Google reminded me today that I had had my NGO for 1 year.

TBH it has mostly sat on the shelf, I've preferred to use my Harlequin instead.

I was excited for Marsmare the next version and even backed it. If I remember correctly that was supposed to be available in July last year.

There is sadly no community for the next that I can find. Facebook is no good. It doesn't have the depth of the forums like these. You can only easily see a hand full of the latest posts.

I said this earlier, but deleted my post for fear of seeming negative. Maybe I am missing something, but the Next feels like an Amiga with no software and crucially no community.

[PeterJ]

I have to declare that I sold my Spectrum Next, but did back the second Kickstarter. Mine sat in the box too.

I've said before that I felt the manual was poor and not enough checking was done (I've been told the new one will be better and people will have the opportunity to check it), and it is way too Amiga like. It looks wonderful, but as you say the support has not been great. Not helped by a poor website.

I greatly admire project like The C64:

https://retrogames.biz/thec64

It's not doing anything fancy, but it's a full size replica of the C64 with a proper keyboard for those who don't have the skills to use RetroPie or similar. I wish there was a Spectrum equivalent. I wouldn't buy one, but there are those that would. Also it's been picked up by the community. Lots of YouTube stuff and even books

I suppose I was expecting a huge community of type ins rather like in the days of Sinclair Programs and the like. I also don't like the fact that many of the normal Sinclair BASIC commands like ATTR and SCREEN$ don't have equivalents in the other modes. I was expecting an improved Spectrum, maintaining Spectrum BASIC in all modes, but extra commands for sprites and the like.

I've been playing with the Amiga lately (I had one after my Spectrum when I was at College), and things like AMOS and Blitz BASIC are amazing.

[PeterJ]

Threads like this can easily go off-topic, so please make sure you keep on-topic. Cheers

[spider]

I thought I saw your post earlier.

I don't think you are being too negative, its "at the end of the day" an opinion.

I don't know why but when I read it earlier I immediately thought "Sam Owners" when that was new.

FB is OK but its not a forum as such and its difficult to find things. I actually joined one Next group I found to help a member out here who wanted some information but did not have nor want a FB account.

Must confess the machine itself sort of passed me by, simply as I was not looking at 'new' hardware at the time.

It does have its place and I know someone with one who does use it a fair bit and speaks very highly of it.

EDIT...

Threads like this can easily go off-topic, so please make sure you keep on-topic. Cheers

Concur. I would guess you mean no erm "bashing" of hardware choices as such ? I'd myself not do that as own view on that is simply "each to their own" , lots of good and bad things could be said about any hardware either modern or old. Never any need to be negative with posts about choices. Some of my own erm "hardware purchases" over the year some could pour scorn over! But they were my choice and I did because I wanted to.

End of day: We're all enthusiasts or we would not be here.

[blucey]

The hardware looked nice but I never really got the point of the Next. Especially the updated software which didn't feel Speccy-ish at all. At that point you might as well be putting the guts of a Master System inside a Speccy.

[Luzie]

There is sadly no community for the next that I can find. Facebook is no good. It doesn't have the depth of the forums like these. You can only easily see a hand full of the latest posts.

If you are for NextBASIC, there´s a the Facebook-Group "BASIC on the ZX Spectrum Next" which I can recommend.

There´s even a own FB-Group for developers called "Spectrum Next Dev".
This e.g. is from there today:

David Saphier
Quick experiment wobbling L2 Y/X with the copper
https://github.com/em00k/zx-next-copper-wobble

EDIT : This now works properly in CSpect after correctly waiting for the last line

For NextBASIC, there´s an updated PDF-Manual available. Download at: https://gitlab.com/thesmog358/tbblue/-/ ... atures.pdf
This e.g. has Info on using the Hardware-Sprites under NextBASIC. These informations are missing in the manual which was delivered with KS1 Nexts as these are coming with later versions of NextZXOS/NextBASIC. You could do very nice things with NextBASIC and running it under fast 28 MHz.

There´s also the official SpecNext forum at: https://www.specnext.com/forum/
Not many people are there but if you wait some days, you should get your questions answered.

There are many developers/programming examples out there on the net, Some on own websites.
Most can be find on Youtube. E.g. "#44: Building a BASIC Dev Setup for the ZX Spectrum Next" Spriteworx at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ClkI11FcD4

[PeterJ]

Thanks @Luzie,

Some interesting and pleasing information in that PDF:

NOTE: The ATTR, POINT and SCREEN$ functions do not take account of the
layer/mode settings, and only refer to the standard Spectrum screen. However,
instead, the following new command is available:
POINT x,y TO var
Checks the pixel on the current layer at (x,y) and stores the value in variable
var.
The value will be 0 or 1 for standard Spectrum modes and Timex hi-res and hi-
colour modes (pixel off or on). The value will be 0-255 for lo-res and layer 2
(actual pixel colour).

It's interesting that for a while Phoebus Dokos was collating the errors (There was a Google sheet) in the original manual with the plan to provide an updated manual, sadly this was dropped. I'm very passionate that projects live or or die based on their documentation (and it's quality).

What would be nice is something written for migration from Spectrum BASIC to Next BASIC.

There was some excellent documentation started by Neil Streeter. He caught COVID in late 2021 and there have been no updates since. I do hope he is OK.

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/2 ... ctrum_Next

[Nitrowing]

When mine arrived, I plugged it in and checked it worked on my TV. It's only been dusted since.
I bought it because I liked the idea and wanted to support the project.

[dfzx]

I greatly admire project like The C64:

https://retrogames.biz/thec64

It's not doing anything fancy, but it's a full size replica of the C64 with a proper keyboard for those who don't have the skills to use RetroPie or similar. I wish there was a Spectrum equivalent.

Wouldn't that be the Recreated ZX Spectrum project?

[PeterJ]

Good point @dfzx. You are correct. I probably blocked that out of my mind because it was created by Elite, so I refused to buy one.

[clebin]

Yeah, I agree it's not clicking right now. The biggest problem is that almost none of the software that was initially previewed has materialised. I do think things would have been different if half the stuff we saw screenshots of at the beginning had come out. There's also a lack of firmware updates and the potential of the wifi card and Raspberry Pi remain mostly unrealised. The momentum hasn't been there.

The Next creators have had a lot to deal with in terms of delivering the 2nd Kickstarter, but it feels that the problems have sucked time away from community building. The Next site is very static and needs a rethink so that users are attracted there instead of Facebook. Much more regular updates and breaking down the wall between news and comment would help.

I don't think all is lost, but at some point the focus needs to switch to supporting the community, rekindling that buzz around the project and somehow making sure that projects are delivered. Take Wonderful Dizzy for example - it was lack of dialogue and support that created the confusion and led to it getting canned. To the authors, it felt like the Next team weren't sufficiently on board.

I don't think it's just about time though. You could give me all the time in the world and I'll still be rubbish at marketing and promotion. They might need to bring the right personality into the team to make this work, someone who cares as much about getting the word out and making connections with people as about the technical stuff. The good news is that the product itself is solid and there's a lot of goodwill to tap into. For the right game, lapsed users will still dig their Next out of the cupboard. Right now, though, there's not much incentive unfortunately.

[Luzie]

There was some excellent documentation started by Neil Streeter. He caught COVID in late 2021 and there have been no updates since. I do hope he is OK.

https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/2 ... ctrum_Next

Dear @PeterJ Thank you for that. I´ve read about this doc already in the SpecNext Facebook-Group in October 2020 (https://forum.tlienhard.com/phpBB3/view ... 131#p46131)

I must admit that we all maybe spend too little time on what the Next already offers.

[Jbizzel]

I am active on facebook, and part of at least 1 next group.

FB (PS which I hate with a passion lol) is OK for posting announcements and links to things you want to share. It sucks as a place to have a conversation, or talk about coding.

Most of the next chat seems to be on facebook or Youtube - which has the same problem.

There needs to be a space for coders and coder wannabees like me to learn the ropes from example code and learning from others.

I saw something a while back, a bit of code to but a background image into a game using next basic. I looked for it the other day and couldn't find it on facebook.

then I turned to the manual and in the end gave up.

Actually it makes me realise what an amazing job @boriel has done describing and documenting ZX Basic. He has created a bridge (which I have firmly crossed) between Sinclair basic and ZX basic.

I would like to convert some of my spectrum games to the next, but the learning curve is too steep for me to make the leap, when I've got to the point where I can comfortably make the games I want to make in ZX Basic and maybe a bit of ASM. I have limited time, and could end up spending ages trying to figure out the next and feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. A forum and community would help with that.

[AndyC]

I think at lot of the reasons here are why I've never been entirely convinced. Maybe if I had one, I'd be inclined to actually try developing something for it as the documentation I have seen, whilst a bit sparse for a beginner, did seem to cover the key points. I think not being able to just "buy" one probably hasn't helped either. Because at some point it kind of needs to be an actual product if it is going to encourage developers and I'm just not sure it ever can be.

As it stands there are other retro systems out there that I've never coded on, like the NES, SNES and MegaDrive that are all more tempting as something to play around with than the Next. And all easier to get hold of as actual hardware too.

[8BitAG]

The Recreated ZX Spectrum was just a bluetooth keyboard, not what The C64 is. The Spectrum Next is more like the Mega65, than an attempt to recreate the original. Perhaps that would be a better point of comparison when looking at support from developers etc.

Seems unlikely The C64 team would do anything similar for the Spectrum, given the Vega/Vega+ debacle.

It's a shame that so many of your Spectrum Nexts have sat in their boxes or been sold. I'd have loved to have been able to afford one to develop stuff for. Mind you, I'm an original SAM Coupe owner, so I'm used to having an obscure "super Spectrum".

I hope the second Kickstarter delivers. I can't even start to imagine the absolute nightmare that they must be having trying to get that completed with the current global situation. Might've been better just to have got an identical second batch out the door quickly; warts and all; rather than aiming for perfection.

[AndyC]

I do wonder if the Next was actually too much of a "super" spectrum. Are all the sprites, layers and video modes that everyone thought they wanted actually just too much complexity for those who actually wanted it in the end?

I wonder if a rebuilt SAM, with modern device support and some sort of 128K compatibility might have been a better product.

[chip-fork]

I saw something a while back, a bit of code to but a background image into a game using next basic.

There was a bit on a recent the spectrum show on youtube about using the next to put backgrounds behind spectrum games and add boarders with lots of colours. Starting at about 23:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJBCoz23Ov4

Is that what you were searching for @Jbizzel ?

[Nitrowing]

Well, yes - there's a huge availability problem. Way back then, a 48K could be bought anywhere.
Lack of support - there used to be plenty of magazines with type-ins.
Killer games - how many 'Top Lists' have we had on here of old games? A lot of times, there's so many that we don't even agree there's so many to choose from! How many actual games does my Next have, let alone choose a top ten from...

[Matt_B]

It's certainly worth remembering that there are less than three thousand of them out there and I'd imagine that most of them are in the hands of collectors who probably aren't inclined to do anything too creative with them.

There's also a glut of retro-focused gaming hardware on the market at the moment, and if you bought a Spectrum Next you probably also got at least some out of the Evercade, MiSTer, NES/SNES Classic, MegaDrive Mini, and a slew of cheap Chinese handhelds while you were at it; and that's just the good stuff. This will also be competing for the attention of even the people who are interested in making new games, and we probably shouldn't be expecting much more than we're currently getting.

Anyway, I suspect the answer is in the hands of the people who've got them, i.e. make your own games. They don't have to be the most technically accomplished ones and it's probably better to use the new hardware features sparingly, at least to start with, as you're more likely to finish them off that way and they won't lose all the character of a Spectrum game in the process.

[mausthekat]

I'm hoping that Kickstarter 2 will improve things, but there will still be only about 10k or so out there by my estimates.

I've just got my n-go a few days ago, and it has rekindled my interest after many years, so it's got that going for it.

I've also been inspired to learn some z80 and write the game that has been kicking around my head for a while. Whether this last part actually happens or not is another matter.

[Vampyre]

Hmm. This thread is rather making me regret backing the 2nd Kickstarter, but then again I have a habit of buying hardware that becomes a dust-gatherer within a few weeks (I've ordered a top-end Steam Deck and this will almost certainly end up the same). I know me too well, I'll play a few Speccy games on it, maybe a few Next games and then after a few weeks it'll be sitting in the corner in the hopes I might turn it back on.

It's all down to me - I get rather obsessive with playing certain games in whatever spare time I have and ignore everything else. Elden Ring is currently doing this.

Oh well, there's always eBay I suppose.

[Jbizzel]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dr ... ts/3415508

Marsmare is delayed, and a windows version is being worked in.

Feels like a familiar story which I don't think has helped the next.

Some great looking title builds excitement. The development process seems difficult, the developer switches to windows for a bigger audience I guess.

I know I sound like a downer lol. I still have my NGO and have no plans to sell it. I'm really trying to understand what's going on and what the future might hold.

The other thing mentioned on this thread is that the next games end up looking like mastersystem or Amiga games. You might as well get a raspberry pi and enumlate a huge library of titles.

Is it just really tricky to program on? Maybe I should just give it ago!

The copper example above is very complex.

[toot_toot]

Ah… the Next…

I have one after backing the first Kickstarter and the whole experience just put me off backing any other crowd funded projects. It’s hard to believe, but it’s almost five years since the first Kickstarter was completed (May 2017). Looking back at all the fanfare and energy surrounding the project kickstarter, we’ve ended up with the complete opposite in terms of energy and support. Hmmm…

Anyway, some thoughts on the Next and why it hasn’t done as well as I’d hoped.

Original Spectrum Experience. My Next is still sitting in its box. I used it a few times when I got it, but to be honest the overall experience as a modern Spectrum with HD output just wasn’t great. As a Spectrum, it was too fiddly to get things set up on it, the manual was way too overly complicated at a quick start guide, the HDMI output didn’t work on every game (especially new games that used timing to avoid colour clash), the SNA/TAP level of support wasn’t great (it was real hit and miss if a game would load). I was given a +2 by a friend (which had been sitting in their parents spare room for 30 years, completely boxed.. nice!) and I bought a DivMMC Future. For just playing Spectrum games, the difference is huge - the +2 and DivMMC Future is so easy to use, most games work and while it doesn’t have an HDMI output, when using a good quality SCART socket, the video quality is really good. You have to wonder how many people have done the same, backed the original Kickstarter of the Next had other ways of playing Spectrum games, like on original hardware, and just found the Next too fiddly and underwhelming as a replacement.

Backer goodwill The original Kickstarter experience was really painful, hardly any updates and what became two years of delays while the team tinkered with things like the keyboard. Issues had been raised by the community about hardware bugs when the board only option was released, like the HDMI power problem, which just seemed to be ignored while the team spent 2 years fiddling with the keyboard design. What was really annoying was that all those bugs/issues that “weren’t really an issue” were going to be fixed in the second Kickstarter which felt like a real kick in the teeth for the original backers. It also felt like most of the delays in the first kickstarter were down to the team tinkering around with things which really didn’t matter that much (did we care if the keyboard had an amazing feel to it? It’s not exactly an Apple device), but the second Kickstarter sounded like it was just a quick release of the same hardware. Which was good as it meant there would be more Next users and hopefully a larger community. Except.. the team decided again to tinker around with things and in the background those very specific chips, such as the FPGA, which were already in low supply were now impossible to get a hold of at decent prices. So down goes the backer goodwill. Again.
The other issue as it’s been pointed out, where are all the games that were promised as part of the original Kickstarter stretch goals? Where’s the new Nodes of Yesod? Rex Next? Dreamworld Pogie? Oh, that’s been released as a demo… 4 years after the Kickstarter launched. The attitude from the team seems to be “but we weren’t in control of that”, but what they end up doing is promising more games for the second Kickstarter, none of which have seen the light of day, despite there being development tools widely available. All of this has to hinder backer goodwill.

Community The community aspect of the Next is really dire, the team seemed to just move to Facebook as a platform which is absolutely atrocious at creating any sort of community where you can have a decent conversation. Even though they created a Next website and forum, it was hardly updated. So we ended up with a Facebook group consisting of the same old posters sticking the same old rubbish on it, which to be fair can be like a lot of forums (!!) but as is to be expected of Facebook, most of the posts just came across as people posting photos bragging of what they’ve got.

Spectrum Next Another failure has bee the “Next” part of the Spectrum Next, as in a Next Generation of the Spectrum. What a Next Generation Spectrum should look like, in terms of games and graphics, just feels completely removed from what it actually would have been circa 1987 or so. There’s no clear definition of what a Next game should look like, meaning that most games look like PD Amiga games from circa 1990. It feels like there wasn’t a clear definition of what a Spectrum Next generation would look like, what the capabilities would be and build it around that. I mean, a great feature would have been to remove Colour Clash in hardware, like the 1990s Russian Spectrum clones did, but instead we ended up with poor looking 16-bit games. A great example is Melkhior's Mansion, that really looks like a Next generation Spectrum game, but that design option has come from the developers, not from the limitations of the hardware of development tools. So while you can have Melkhior’s Mansion, you can also end up with other games that look nothing like a Spectrum game at all and should be on an Amiga magazine cover disk as a PD giveaway. It’s just too inconsistent as a Spectrum Next Generation.

My Next is sitting in a box and I contemplate selling it every so often, maybe I will and get a Mega65 instead, which is waaaay too expensive but it at least does what it set out to do, replicate a Commodore 65 with modern video outputs and the ability to “emulate” (is that the word for FPGA devices?) other platforms (again another feature promised in the Next which when released was incredibly fiddly and not 100% supported).

[seeker]

I backed the first Kickstarter, was thrilled when it arrived, but barely used it - and the parts I did use were the classic Speccy parts, not any of the new modes. So eventually I ebay'd it, happy to have helped bring the project to life but not wanting it to lurk sad and unused.

I intended to put the money towards refurbishing my original Speccy and buying a divMMC Future, although it took rather longer to get around to that than I originally planned (so it wasn't that actual money, it was some other decluttering profits money ) but my Speccy is back from Mutant Caterpillar in amazing condition and my Future arrives this week.

I think the main thing, well really the only thing, that dampened my enthusiasm for the Next was the BASIC programming. I naively thought I'd be able to boot up BASIC and go "BORDER 27" for e.g. a charming shade of orange. But of course compatibility doesn't work like that

Absolutely no regrets for backing it, for owning it and trying it... but none for moving it on either.

[Jbizzel]

What I wanted from the next was games that felt like spectrum games with bells on. The spectrum has a unique graphical born out of limitations, but actually very attractive in the right hands.

What I wanted from the next graphically is spectrum games with ULA + pallettes and no attribute clash.

It would have been great if existing titles could have been ported easily to the next with these minor enhancements.

With wonderful dizzy, I don't know what the next version would have looked like, but I would have been blown away by no attribute clash and an ula palette. They didn't need to do more that that.

As @toot_toot says, Melkhior’s Mansion looks to be achieving this, as a design choice. And it looks amazing.

Wonderful dizzy looks amazing too, and is a fantastic free game for the spectrum. Truly wonderful.

Re the hdmi, I played castlevania loads on the next. There are sections of white bricks where the background moves around as the player just through it. That shouldn't happen. The game looks better on a standard spectrum!

So I guess you could get a +2, add the slam ula, and maybe even a +3e ROM and a divide and you're nearly there. Just put up with the clash, it is actually what makes the spectrum great