Double Dragon

[Swainy]

Yes, I’m still obsessed with this game. Can any of the talented people on this forum locate the graphics (mainly the sprites) in this game? I want to use the tool that Ralf made to edit OutRun Europa to have a go of making the sprites to look a bit better in this game.

[Ralf]

Hi Swainy!

Yes, you are really crazy about Dobule Dragon Shame that his game has so bad luck when it comes to the remake.

I'm afraid that my tool will work with Outrun Europa and nothing else. Each game has its own data format.

Sprites are harder to modify than backgrounds. They have masks and are often built of several parts (think of the
same legs reused in different sprites like in Renegade).

I may have a look on Double Dragon if you are interested how it stores its data. I presume you mean the first part?

[Swainy]

Yeah, just the first level would do. Thanks Ralf!

[JMcGibbitts]

ZX Spectrum Double Dragon wants a 128K-only remake. The Melbourne House version's controls are sketchy and sound is really minimal, especially for a 128K. A graphics refresh won't fix those things.

Perhaps it's worth raising when one of those ZX demake competitions comes around?

[Swainy]

ZX Spectrum Double Dragon wants a 128K-only remake. The Melbourne House version's controls are sketchy and sound is really minimal, especially for a 128K. A graphics refresh won't fix those things.

Perhaps it's worth raising when one of those ZX demake competitions comes around?

Well the graphics have been sitting on my hard five for years. Find me a decent programmer

[catmeows]

ZX Spectrum Double Dragon wants a 128K-only remake.

It wants streamlining - removing platforming elements like ladders, little bit smaller graphics. Exactly what GB version did. Simply build DD for ZX Spectrum. Sprite set from 2012 version is so huge that you would need Spectrum 256.

[zxbruno]

I still watch that little Double Dragon test video on YouTube once in a while... Remakes work better then they're not announced.

[Swainy]

I still watch that little Double Dragon test video on YouTube once in a while... Remakes work better then they're not announced.

Well I had to announce it as I needed a coder. But yes, I agree that it’s frustrating that it’s never been finished.

[PeteProdge]

It wants streamlining - removing platforming elements like ladders, little bit smaller graphics. Exactly what GB version did. Simply build DD for ZX Spectrum. Sprite set from 2012 version is so huge that you would need Spectrum 256.

The Gameboy version of Double Dragon is so heavily far removed from what Double Dragon is, that no sane person would count that as Double Dragon. It's its own game, really (and not that good). It just happens to have the Double Dragon logo on it and maybe the sprites look a bit like the original if you stood about 12 feet away from the screen.

[presh]

Sprites are harder to modify than backgrounds. They have masks and are often built of several parts (think of the
same legs reused in different sprites like in Renegade).

I just had a quick play through the 1st level to satisfy my curiosity, and it does indeed appear that *all* sprites have the same legs... this includes Linda and even Abobo, which makes him look a bit "top heavy" (though I *think* he does have some custom legs for some frames, e.g. when you hit him?).

That said I think the legs are pretty decent already, certainly serviceable... much better than the heads, which could do with sprucing up!

[AndyC]

I'm not surprised the legs were reused. Amazed they got away with it even for Abobo though, I hadn't actually noticed that before. Just goes to show some of the tricks that had to be used to squeeze everything into just 48K.

[Swainy]

The legs are about the best thing drawn in the game. The preview sprites were far from perfect but they were better than the final sprites.

[presh]

I suspect there are only 4 sprites in total which are held in memory throughout the entire game:

Billy / Jimmy
Male thug (not sure which, hard to tell!)
Linda
Abobo

plus two drawing routines - one for normal, another for inverted - to imply a bit of variety (and allow reuse of Billy's sprite for Jimmy)

I also suspect the Machine Gun Willy and Marian sprites are only loaded on the final level as they're unique - probably taking up some of the space which would usually be used for map tiles/data.

...though I could be wrong!

[Swainy]

To be honest the lack of different sprites didn’t t really bother me. My real problem with the game is the physics when you are fighting. When you knock someone over, they are supposed to fall back a bit just like in the 128k version of Renegade and as in Target Renegade. You are supposed to be able to knock the bad guys off leges into holes, this doesn’t happen in the Spectrum version and to me it really affects the way the game plays.

Anyway, evolution of the main sprite. How to make it look worse.

[PeteProdge]

According to a Binary Design interview that's cited in the latest Kim Justice video (on the subject of all Taito coin-op conversions on the ZX Spectrum), Binary Design were given the usual three months to come up with Double Dragon on the three major 8-bit platforms and the two 16-bit platforms. When Virgin Mastertronic checked in on it, they were dismayed at how it was going, so scrapped it all and gave them all the remaining TWO WEEKS to start again from scratch. That's apparently what we have. If true, makes me wonder how bad the previous version must have been.

I wish I was any cop at machine code programming, because I really would love to give the ZX Spectrum a decent... no, just a half-decent Double Dragon game. Kim Justice points out ALL the home computer versions stank, with the exception of the Amstrad CPC 6128 version that was close to passable. I'd say that's fair comment!

The Speccy's Double Dragon 2 (also by Binary Design) is a lot better (even though the arcade game isn't as good as the original), and feels more like the Double Dragon we should have got.

And yeah, I looked at 22 versions of Double Dragon a while back. Still my favourite arcade game of all time, pleased to say there's an original coin-op cabinet not far from me, at Milton Keynes's Pixel Bunker.

[Vampyre]

Two weeks!! I can imagine that conversation went along the lines of:



How in the hell can any game be produced in that amount of time? If it's really the case then I'm amazed at what we eventually got was even remotely playable.

[Swainy]

According to a Binary Design interview that's cited in the latest Kim Justice video (on the subject of all Taito coin-op conversions on the ZX Spectrum), Binary Design were given the usual three months to come up with Double Dragon on the three major 8-bit platforms and the two 16-bit platforms. When Virgin Mastertronic checked in on it, they were dismayed at how it was going, so scrapped it all and gave them all the remaining TWO WEEKS to start again from scratch. That's apparently what we have. If true, makes me wonder how bad the previous version must have been.

I wish I was any cop at machine code programming, because I really would love to give the ZX Spectrum a decent... no, just a half-decent Double Dragon game. Kim Justice points out ALL the home computer versions stank, with the exception of the Amstrad CPC 6128 version that was close to passable. I'd say that's fair comment!

The Speccy's Double Dragon 2 (also by Binary Design) is a lot better (even though the arcade game isn't as good as the original), and feels more like the Double Dragon we should have got.

And yeah, I looked at 22 versions of Double Dragon a while back. Still my favourite arcade game of all time, pleased to say there's an original coin-op cabinet not far from me, at Milton Keynes's Pixel Bunker.

That doesn’t apply to the Speccy version. David Leitch was the coder mentioned in the previews and he is the only programmer listed on the credits. There were 2 different graphic artists working on the game though, which might be why the sprites looked fairly different early on.

The change of teams was for the Atari ST & Amiga, Richard Aplin was brought in at the last minute to try and tidy up the mess that the original coder had made.

[presh]

To be honest the lack of different sprites didn’t really bother me.

Sure, I was more pointing out that they probably all live in memory all the time, rather than different sprites being loaded in each multiload... meaning less work if you still plan to twiddle with their graphics, as you'll only have to locate & edit them once

My real problem with the game is the physics when you are fighting. [...] You are supposed to be able to knock the bad guys off leges into holes

Also, have you *ever* managed to hit anyone with a boulder / oil drum? Due to how they move (and how quickly they get up from a fall), it's seemingly impossible to get enough distance & just goes straight over the top of all the enemies!

AND THEY GOT RID OF MASSIVE BIN CAT!

[Swainy]

I have managed to use the oil drum & boulder on the bad guys but you have to run away from them diagonally, get to the edge of the screen and then you might be lucky.

It was David Leitch’s first game, his games did get better with Shinobi & Narc on the Speccy.

[777]

yeah, where are the player/npc sprites in this game? im using emuzwin sprite finder. are the compressed? i can see some of the sprites, though...

[RMartins]

Well the graphics have been sitting on my hard five for years. Find me a decent programmer

Which graphics ?
I have seen several versions by now.

Where is yours ?
Can we see it ?

[Swainy]

Ok, these were the sprites drawn by Craig.



Which I then animated. You can see the main sprite by clicking

I also re/drew all the background graphics and animated the rest of the sprites.

I’ll post more stuff tomorrow evening. Can’t get to my spare hard drive right now.

[Swainy]

I forgot that you can see what Jim Bailey coded in action.



The depressing thing is that video is now 10 years old.

[RMartins]

I remember, that one.
I also remember that we talked abut it some time ago and I took a peak at the snapshot, but it only works for Pentagon, Not ZX 48K or 128K.

It's something I could do, since I started a very similar game ( P.O.W. ) in terms of features and somewhat similar gameplay.
But currently time is scarce. Too much projects at the same time.

[Lee Bee]

What a great thread! I LOVE Double Dragon! Love the arcade machine. Great trivia here!

I was just about to offer to provide all the music, but looking at that video it seems someone has already beaten me to it. Not a bad job, either. There are things I would have done differently, but it is excellent. If anyone wants an alternative version of the music for a different remake or mod, just ask