Spectrum Computing

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:21 pm**

I don't really think the criticism is valid, especially when the later spectrum models added up and down cursor keys next to one another horizontally to the right of the space bar (and left and right to the left of the space bar).

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:41 pm**

uglifruit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:21 pm I don't really think the criticism is valid, especially when the later spectrum models added up and down cursor keys next to one another horizontally to the right of the space bar (and left and right to the left of the space bar).

And let us not forget... whoever it was who designed the Spectrum+ keyboard layout, and thus that of all subsequent Spectrums (bar the Next), thought it was a brilliant idea to put the up and down arrows the wrong way round, which I always found infuriating.

At least if you're using what I term "left-handed keyboard controls" (K/M, P/L, O/K for up/down etc; QAOP, AZNM are "right-handed"), then it's going to be your middle finger controlling "up" and your index finger controlling "down". This is why I never had a problem with 0/9 for up/down in Mushroom Mania - I was using the same fingers as for K/M. So N=down, M=up isn't all that bad. If it was the other way around, then we have real problems.

I've never played Viper III but taking a look at the screenshot, I'd be OK with the controls, even with the layout they are, but only because the ship being controlled is on the right of the screen. If it was on the left, it'd be a nightmare. I'd like to think that if it scrolled the other way, up/down would be on the left side of the keyboard.

Maybe that's just me. Or maybe that's just autism for you. "Are all coders basically autistic?" Probably, or they would be a lot less likely to be coders. Whoever you are reading this, it's just you, me, and about 80-90% of the members of this forum, most likely a lot more, and it'll be the same on WOS, all the Next internet areas, SZXW, Lemon64, AtariAge (if that still exists), les maisons de la CPC et l'Oric en français, and everywhere else that's obsessed with 40-odd-year-old computers and their recent offspring. It was never going to be any other way.

And yet we do still break stereotypes and meet up in person, as long as it's the right environment. Anyone going to Crash Live?

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 6:54 pm**

I can understand why the OP said what he said. Autism is classified as a disorder or disability, so it's easy to associate it with stupidity or ineptitude. There's probably anecdotal evidence of autistic people doing things which seem idiotic to everyone else.

On the other hand, the label of "disorder" is arguably a misnomer. People with autism are really just different. Those differences can present disadvantages and challenges, but also huge advantages.

When I read the thread title, I actually found myself in broad agreement. I can well imagine autistic people having a propensity and talent for coding. Many possess a hyper-logical, keenly focused mind and a natural skill with numbers, not to mention the kind of reclusive personal lives which would prove beneficial to coding.

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:22 pm**

If anything, my autistic nature is very much against awful interfaces and other terrible practices in technology.

One thing that really winds me up is the recent propensity for filming things on phones in portrait mode, which looks shockingly bad in landscape (the natural view of pretty much all humans) so you have wide unfilled gaps on TVs and monitors. Oh and then there's people stretching 4:3 content (like the output of most 8-bit and 16-bit computers/consoles) to widescreen on 16:9 displays.

I'm guessing that the awful key layout is easier to program when it only takes in the bottom row of keys. I'm fairly sure on the Speccy, there are keyboard reading routines for certain rows and so if you're half-arsed, why not just choose a few keys from the same row, eh?

Again, this underlines the ignorance of the OP on autistic issues. I'm high functioning, so, I'm in the fortunate position to mostly use my traits as an advantage for me and my creative work, but I wouldn't describe myself as an excellent coder or even an intermediate one. I did do web development for a time, but I reckon the more experienced coders here would laugh at my spaghetti coding.

Anyway, now off to a casino to make a million pounds staring at cards because that's what we all do. We're all like Rainman or something. Yeah.

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 8:14 pm**

in the same way its said that architects are always dyslectics AND have a good 3D insight at the same time.
some famous architects realy are dyslectic, but if you memorize a whole building then what is the slip off a word.
i had to retype 5 words and 2 of them 2 tymes
TIMES

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:07 pm**

Just for the record, I have ADHD. But I'd challenge the label of "disorder" or "condition". There's no scientific evidence of it being either. It's just a brain type. Just whom I am. Sure, it comes with disadvantages and limitations, and can be frustrating. But in other ways, I consider it a gift and a great privilege. We humans are all different, each with our own strengths and weaknesses, there to support one another, our complementary skills bringing us together as a society. Life would be boring if we were all perfect in every way!

Posted: **Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:12 pm**

PeteProdge wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 7:22 pm Oh and then there's people stretching 4:3 content (like the output of most 8-bit and 16-bit computers/consoles) to widescreen on 16:9 displays.

I'd be curious to see your reaction to the SAM Coupé's output via RF... on a 4:3 display, it looks almost widescreen, but not quite, because it outputs at 5:4. The first time I hooked it up to a 16:9 TV, I didn't realise it wasn't switched to the 4:3 aspect ratio because I was expecting it to look stretched.

Switching between SimCoupe (which I have running in 1:1 pixel mode by default) and the real thing, particularly on a CRT, is an interesting experience, to say the least.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 7:39 am**

HEXdidnt wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:12 pm I'd be curious to see your reaction to the SAM Coupé's output via RF... on a 4:3 display,

I played on one quite regularly in 1992-93 at friend's house, so yeah, it was Chaos with the wizards and creatures looking like they've just had Christmas dinner.

The MSX output is quite similar. Spectrum ports looking a bit squashed.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:19 am**

firelord wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:41 pm I would use different keys:
U:Up , D:Down and F:fire
They are much easier to remember...

Check out Roberto Colombo's "Char-Bank". It's a really great font utility.

L is left. R is Right. U is Up. D is Down.

To be fair, he was Italian, but the keys to go left and right are the opposite sides of the keyboard than the direction.

"Empire" has odd keys too. O and P for left and right. That's fine.

Symbol Shift N and M for thrust. That's AWKWARD.

And X is fire.

I like 67890 for keys. Good old sinclair joystick.

(and not a big fan of the title of the thread either. "What WERE they thinking?" perhaps...)

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:01 am**

Maybe just me, but I don't find the keys odd at all. N moves the ship to the left, M to the right, from the ship's perspective.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:19 am**

Yes, some of them are. Not on the level of some of the posters ITT mind you, but still.

/thread? /thread.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:04 am**

sn3j wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:01 am Maybe just me, but I don't find the keys odd at all. N moves the ship to the left, M to the right, from the ship's perspective.

Breaking news: you are odd.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:46 am**

@StanVanman

Can you please lay your hands flat out on the table, desk or work top in front of you (and if you are not in front of said item, move there).

With your hands flat on the surface with your fingers and thumbs no more than ½cm (5mm) apart, are the tips of your fingers predominantly arranged in a horizontal line or a vertical line?

If your answer is not horizontal, then why are PC keyboards much wider horizontally?

Mark

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:54 pm**

WhatHoSnorkers wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:19 am Check out Roberto Colombo's "Char-Bank". It's a really great font utility.

L is left. R is Right. U is Up. D is Down.

To be fair, he was Italian, but the keys to go left and right are the opposite sides of the keyboard than the direction.

To be fair, LRUD are used only for the "scroll" effect (it's a font editor, it shifts all the pixels in the wanted direction), for the normal navigation (selecting menus, moving the cursor) it uses QZYIB, which is unusual anyway. The reason of this choice is that he needed to map a bunch of shortcuts, he started with Antiorario and Orario (clockwise and anticlockwise) so he couldn't use A and O of the QAOP setup. After AO he switched to English and mapped Get, Put, Horizontal and Vertical mirroring. Yeah, he could just use... like the CURSOR KEYS? They didn't put the arrows up there for fun!

I don't get the "Italian" joke. If he wanted to do something rightful for Dante's language he should map the commands with SGDS, Su (up) Giù (down) Destra (right) Sinistra (left, yes the same key goes up and left, we could just accept the fact that it's not possible to go only up or only left in Italy, or maybe we can use some Alt-key, for example S is up and Symbol Shift+S is left).

ps. As for the title, I am uncomfortable with it, too... my GF, who is a psychologist, says that I have many traits of autism (mostly corrected with adulthood) even if I think I'm not. One of these trait is that I tend to fail to get the understatements, taking everything too literally. OK Eng is not my 1st language so add some random misunderstanding, but at first glance I read the title as a serious question, as anyway there are many neurodivergent coders... so now I'm questioning myself...

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:57 pm**

I've not read the whole topic, sorry.

In reference only to the topic title...

But yes it can give rise to "highly creative" bursts as well as huge bouts of both intense activity (concentration) and the complete opposite effect too sometimes.

I know

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:01 pm**

OK I tried Viper III.
I think the keys are the LAST of its problems.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:15 pm**

Yep. And there's still the option to turn the telly on its side.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:21 pm**

Oloturia wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:01 pm OK I tried Viper III.
I think the keys are the LAST of its problems.

I actually quite like it, having remapped the keys. It's not a blockbuster or anything but it's smooth and playable and it's got some clever stuff going on, like the stages where you have to shoot your laser to illuminate the darkness. The balance between preserving your energy and letting rip in the waves with the moving enemies is well judged. It's moderately clever and addictive.

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:09 pm**

StanVanman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:21 pm I actually quite like it, having remapped the keys.

Me too, though I think I've played it before.

The thread's taken a few twists and turns on the way! but if anyone's interested here's a cracked version with *OK = U/D, bottom row fire, H=pause (fire to unpause): unzipped sna and a zipped sna.

*Oh god what do these key choices say about me?

patch asm:

Code: Select all

org 26000
	ld a,223
	in a,(254)
	and 2	;key O
	call z,26150
	ld a,191
	in a,(254)
	and 4	;key K
	call z,26235
	ret
	;
org 26033
	ld a,126	;fire keys all bottom row
	in a,(254)
	cpl
	and 31
	call nz,26860
	ret
	;
org 26847
	ld a,191
	in a,(254)
	and 16
	call z,31700
	jr 26774
	;
org 31704
	ld a,126
	in a,(254)
	cpl
	and 31
	jr z,31704

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:35 pm**

R-Tape wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:09 pm *Oh god what do these key choices say about me?

Well… Where to start…

Mark

Posted: **Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:42 pm**

R-Tape wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:09 pm ...here's a cracked version with *OK = U/D, bottom row fire, H=pause (fire to unpause):

*Oh god what do these key choices say about me?

You're OK by me. Hoho.

Posted: **Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:10 am**

R-Tape wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 2:09 pm *Oh god what do these key choices say about me?

Are you by any chance left handed?

Posted: **Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:19 am**

AndyC wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:10 am Are you by any chance left handed?

Nope I'm manipulotypical. I chose those keys as it scrolls to the left, if it scrolled to the right id prefer QA-M.

Posted: **Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:31 pm**

While the controls do seem asinine by modern standards, they probably make more sense when we apply some historical perspective…

The game was released in '84 and possibly developed in '83, and the fact is: at that time there was no such thing as the "side-scrolling shooter". This was still a couple of years before Gradius, and three years before R-Type, both of which pioneered the genre.

At this time, the overwhelming majority of shooters had been what we'd now call "vertical shooters". Horizontal shooters were almost none-existent, with Defender being just about the only prominent example.

So, in the early 80s, videogames players were only really accustomed to controlling upward-facing aircraft, using left and right keys to steer the craft. That system was ingrained into our minds.

Even when the craft turned to face in other directions, the controls would often remain the same, such as in Asteroids, an arcade game with no joystick, only left and right buttons to control direction:

Even today, this "left" and "right" control system still feels quite natural for games where you can rotate your craft. Certainly, no one has any problem with it in 1984's TLL.

Now in both Viper III and TLL you'll find yourself travelling from right to left across the screen, using "right" to go "up". The only difference is that Viper III locks you into just this one direction, making it seem less intuitive.

Thinking back after all this time, it is hard to remember the emergence of the side-scrolling shooter as the established genre we all know and love, but it is quite possible that the idea of pushing "up" to steer a ship "left" wasn't originally quite as obvious as it seems to us now.

sn3j wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:15 pm there's still the option to turn the telly on its side.

I know that's a joke, but surely the far easier option is to turn the keyboard sideways? A mere 45° rotation is enough for the controls to feel totally natural.

Posted: **Mon Oct 23, 2023 3:56 pm**

Lee Bee wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 1:31 pmHorizontal shooters were almost none-existent, with Defender being just about the only prominent example.

I find that hard to believe. Scramble (1981) is one of the first side scrolling shooters and was a huge arcade hit.

Spectrum Computing

Are all coders basically autistic?

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