Spectrum Computing

I'll surprise you, but you must fix 48K software to run at 128K. And even fix 128K software to run at +3. They all have different timings, as it is in the case of Pentagon. The only objection you can propose is that Pentagon is "unofficial". Please show "official" Speccy models that were sold in USSR/Russia. None? So, Russians run Speccy scene using the hardware they have. And the Russian Speccy scene is BIG.

Alone Coder wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:10 pm The only objection you can propose is that Pentagon is "unofficial".

and you know what? this is exactly the thing that defines what is Spectrum, and what is not.

Alone Coder wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:10 pm And the Russian Speccy scene is BIG.

and let me ask it again: what is so wrong with calling it "Pentagon scene"? why you're so inclined to call it "Spectrum" when the original models cannot even run some Pentagon software? is there really nothing to be proud of, except the "borrowed" name, that is not even right?

it seems that you're getting me wrong. i'm not bashing Pentagon as being "bad" or "wrong". the only thing i want is clear naming. "Spectrum" is the thing that can run software written for the original models, unmodified and right (including border effects). it may run only software for the specific original model (48K/128K/+2/+3), but it should do so without any "fixes". if the machine cannot do that, than it is not a Spectrum. it may be better or worse than the original Spectrums, but it is not Spectrum.

i don't want to banish Pentagon from Speccy community, i just want it to be clearly marked as Pentagon. it is definitely a member of "Spectrum family", but please, let this relative to keep its own name. ;-) "Pentagon" is a well-established "brand" (if we can call it so ;-), so let it proudly call itself by its name, instead of trying to be something it is definetely not.

Unofficial Spectrum models have additional features and of course their enhanced software will only work on them.
Who will we send Prince of Persia, Ball Quest or Edge Grinder to work on a standard Pentagon 128k machine?
But for now I would be happy just with a fixed MDA demo.

ketmar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:28 pm and let me ask it again: what is so wrong with calling it "Pentagon scene"?

This is simply incorrect. The 'Pentagon compatibility' thing was mostly pushed by a number of diskmags, as well as the so-called 'demo scene'. It was popular in some regions, in others it was virtually unknown. On the whole, there existed quite a lot of clones and they didn't all have the 'Pentagon compatibility'. Because the intention behind these clones was to adhere to the ZX Spectrum architecture (although with various success), it is more appropriate to call it the 'Spectrum' scene, even if that's confusing for some people.

Pegaz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:38 pm Prince of Persia

Wasn't there a TAP version of it? You'd need to use a divIDE/divMMC for it to make any sense (random and frequent loading since the original is disk based), but it exists.

[mention]Nienn Heskil[/mention]

I was thinking of a better, colorful version from ATM clone.
Nicodim's version is ported on standard 128k Spectrum, long time ago.

Nienn Heskil wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:48 pm

ketmar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:28 pm and let me ask it again: what is so wrong with calling it "Pentagon scene"?

This is simply incorrect. The 'Pentagon compatibility' thing was mostly pushed by a number of diskmags, as well as the so-called 'demo scene'. It was popular in some regions, in others it was virtually unknown. On the whole, there existed quite a lot of clones and they didn't all have the 'Pentagon compatibility'. Because the intention behind these clones was to adhere to the ZX Spectrum architecture (although with various success), it is more appropriate to call it the 'Spectrum' scene, even if that's confusing for some people.

"Spectrum scene" with software that often doesn't work right on Spectrum. yes, this is the perfect name, i couldn't see anything wrong with it. ;-)

let's face the fact: most Speccy clones in xUSSR were Pentagons. and most software was written for Pentagons, often utilising no floating bus protection in interrupt tables, putting I below #8000, and so on. so unless the author himself said that his software is 100% compatible with the original Spectrum(s), and unless that claim was verified on the original hardware (or on a precise emulator that emulates all important bugs of the original hw), it is Pentagon software, not Spectrum software. using Pentagon name for all Pentagon software is the easiest way to avoid any guesswork.

ketmar wrote: ↑Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:41 pm let's face the fact: most Speccy clones in xUSSR were Pentagons. and most software was written for Pentagons, often utilising no floating bus protection in interrupt tables, putting I below #8000, and so on.

No, that's not how facts work, and/or are established. I don't know if we even need to go that far though, because so far you mostly sound like one of those 'had only 48K+tape in a town of Mukhosransk in the 90s' users drawing conclusions in 2020 based on which configuration is set as default in UnrealSpeccy, tbh.

Pentagon was one of the popular models, nothing more. Just check out the press from the time, there's a lot of critique in respectable publications targeted at 'bad coders' using machine specific tricks such as the infamous 'OUT (#FD),A'. The IM2 table thing, are you for real this was discussed practically anywhere. 'Putting I below #8000' is also unrelated to the Pentagon, we hardly had any clones that suffered nasty side effects from this like the main line.

Let’s watch another thread go south and get locked because of rude, arrogant people.

[mention]Seven.FFF[/mention] sorry, you're right. i never intended to start this offtopic here, but it still happened. my bad.

Meanwhile, the contention model on MiSTer has been fixed, so now the ZX core should be cycle accurate.

akeley wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 9:07 pm Meanwhile, the contention model on MiSTer has been fixed, so now the ZX core should be cycle accurate.

That is very good news.
Can you do some tests for that latest ZX Spectrum core ?
We have a separate topic for emulator testing and it would be good to have fresh data for MiSTer.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=752&hilit=timing+test

Sure, when I have a spare moment, been crazy busy recently...

I'm going to get a ZXDOS+ instead of the Next because I refuse to pay a crazy price.

It'll do what I need it too and the device can be other systems.

ZX DOS+ costs 130E. It's actually more than MiSTer, which is also pretty crazy It's also a continuation of ZX Uno, which got abandoned and left in the cold. If the extra (non-Spectrum) cores on ZX DOS+ are the same as the ones on Uno then they're not really up to scratch.
He says it can do Next, which could be a sellinmg point if it really works 100%. I'm just very cautious about all these other FPGAs.

As for MiSTer, the Next core is now available - sort of. Unfortunately you also have to buy a special SDRAM (32MB+2MB) to run it.

akeley wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:11 pm ZX DOS+ costs 130E. It's actually more than MiSTer, which is also pretty crazy It's also a continuation of ZX Uno, which got abandoned and left in the cold. If the extra (non-Spectrum) cores on ZX DOS+ are the same as the ones on Uno then they're not really up to scratch.
He says it can do Next, which could be a sellinmg point if it really works 100%. I'm just very cautious about all these other FPGAs.

As for MiSTer, the Next core is now available - sort of. Unfortunately you also have to buy a special SDRAM (32MB+2MB) to run it.

MiSTer FPGA doesn't cost 130EUR. ZXUNO+ is active development. ZXDOS+ runs Next 100%. I don't know what you win spreading Bull???s here and in other forums against me:

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=10708#p10708

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:56 pm MiSTer FPGA doesn't cost 130EUR. ZXUNO+ is active development. ZXDOS+ runs Next 100%. I don't know what you win spreading Bull???s here and in other forums against me:

https://misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?p=10708#p10708

Glad you posted that link to MiSTer forums, so more people might be aware of your false and dishonest advertising regarding that composite add on.

As for this thread:
-MiSTer costs 130USD. With 32 SDRAM (which is what's needed to run 99% of stuff) and OTG USB its price is ~135 Euro.

-I was talking about ZX Uno, not ZX Uno+. My comments are based on the fact that I bought it few months ago, because of extra cores, used it for few days and bought MiSTer straight away. The extra cores are half baked and trying to update it or find any information is a nightmare. People on its forums said its abandoned, and that's how it certainly looks to me. So if somebody wants to buy Uno+ for extra cores, they really should do little research beforehand.

I've never said Next does not work. What I said was "if it really works 100% then it could be a selling point". So, yes, in that case it would, if somebody really wants Next and does not care about the extras MiSTer offers. But seeing as my experience with your explanations regarding that composite adapter (which was supposed to be flawless) are very far from satisfactory (putting it mildly) then I'd wait for second opinion on that.

I'd appreciate if you thought your reply through, if you intend to make one, because I have no intention of participating in yet another surreal back-and-forth like in that MiSTer thread.

Please keep things friendly everyone. Thanks

Sorry [mention]PeterJ[/mention], but this is about commercial products. Sometimes it's not possible to talk about them without comparisons to other ones or pointing out flaws. I'm always trying to maintain a civil tone though.

Thanks [mention]akeley[/mention],

Valid comparisons are fine.

akeley wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:14 am As for this thread:
-MiSTer costs 130USD. With 32 SDRAM (which is what's needed to run 99% of stuff) and OTG USB its price is ~135 Euro.

This is completely false. Put me a link where I can buy for that price. Also for Next core you need another SDRAM+SRAM module that costs 38 EUR+shipping.

akeley wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:14 am -I was talking about ZX Uno, not ZX Uno+

ZXUno and ZXUno+ shares the same cores. It's clear you have no idea of my products. You never have bought from me and your hate messages against me has no foundation.

akeley wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:14 am I'd appreciate if you thought your reply through, if you intend to make one, because I have no intention of participating in yet another surreal back-and-forth like in that MiSTer thread.

Well shut your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about

PeterJ wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:07 am Thanks @akeley,

Valid comparisons are fine.

The comparisons are not valid. Because of this person now I have to show a video of ZXDOS+ working. Nothing he said against me can prove it. Not even well informed about my products

Just as an impartial person in this discussion, the cheapest price I can find for the DE10 only is £103.97 (UK Pounds). I believe this includes VAT and shipping.

This is approximately 113.24 Euros and 133 USD.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/ ... dJ5w%3D%3D

If quoting prices please add a link and remember tax and shipping. Then hopefully everyone will be happy.

PeterJ wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:51 pm Just as an impartial person in this discussion, the cheapest price I can find for the DE10 only is £103.97 (UK Pounds). I believe this includes VAT and shipping.

This is approximately 113.24 Euros and 133 USD.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/ ... dJ5w%3D%3D

If quoting prices please add a link and remember tax and shipping. Then hopefully everyone will be happy.

VAT is not included. This is only the DE10 nano. With VAT is about 140-145 EUR. Also I need a link for a SDRAM+SRAM module+shipping. Not the standard 32MB because is not capable to run Next core.

Thanks [mention]antoniovillena[/mention],

I have never purchased from this company so happy to take your word on this, but when I go to checkout it says:

All prices include duty and customs fees on select shipping methods.

It is normal for these types of companies (RS and Farnell do the same) to display prices excluding VAT so I'm sure it's down to my incorrect interpretation.

So including VAT for this part only we have £124.76

antoniovillena wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:18 pm Also I need a link for a SDRAM+SRAM module+shipping. Not the standard 32MB because is not capable to run Next core.

Assuming this is the correct part, they are for me £21.49 (32MB) or £53.99 (128MB) with free UK shipping.


https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... don-board/

https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... mb-module/