Editing this here since it was split off from another thread by PeterJ just a few minutes ago and I can still edit ...
This stems from a discussion about what is a Spectrum and what isn't (clones), when this claim came up.
By the way, the claim that "most today's users came to ZX Spectrum after 1992" was made by someone from the ex-USSR who also is registered on here. Incidentally, roughly an hour ago, he compared the online user numbers of SC and zx-pk.ru:
XTM wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:00 pm
So with this in mind, almost 8 times more active users there, I guess the premise of the claim is correct then.
It all depends how they are measured. A couple of years ago I switched off the option to include 'logged off' users in the count.
To be honest I don't give a jot about comparing users between site A and site B. It's not like we are running an online shop, and we are not in competition with zx-pu (or any other Spectrum site). The more Spectrum sites the better.
I will switch back on 'include guests' for a few days and see what it does.
Now, 77 online @XTM,
Our Russian friends:
You can make numbers tell whatever story you want to !
(lol, Peter split off his post that I was replying to into another thread. Oh well, I'll keep it here for now).
Heh, I was being a little sarcastic as forum members "currently online" doesn't really tell you anything about them still being active Spectrum users. They simply might not be registered here, or not online ... so yeah it was slightly tongue-in-cheek but I should have added a smiley.
Obviously the ex-USSR users started their "Speccy careers" a bit later than us western peeps, therefore maybe the average is younger than us western ones and more likely to still actively using their machines? No idea, I am only in for the nostalgy and rarely use a real Speccy or emulate but that's just me ...
No worries Peter, I also don't give a jot. Apples and Oranges and all that ... It might well have been a sunny day all over the UK (yeah right) so the users quickly decided to get out of the house and not waste their time on a forum, drastically skeweing the numbers
Or maybe 99% of the UK/Western Europe Speccy users that had/used one in the 80s to early 90s simply have moved on and haven't been active in decades, which is completely valid and most likely the case.
I know it is ludicrous. I was being a little sarcastic when I wrote the above.
The premise is this. Our "Ex-USSR friend" claims that most today's users came to ZX Spectrum after 1992.
I read into that statement that most of the western people who grew up with Spectrums in the 80s aren't users anymore. Supposedly the vast majority moved onto other machines and aren't nostalgic enough to indulge in any Speccy retro these days, and thus are not "users" in the sense that they are actively using a Speccy or emulating one.
In contrast, there supposedly are more people from the Ex-USSR who still use a Speccy or a clone, or emulate one. This seemingly based on the number of active people on forums.
Is he right though? I don't know. There is a lot happening on the internet that we aren't aware of. I don't speak Russian so I don't frequent any sites/channels/groups, therefore I have no way of gauging if there is more general Speccy/Clone activity on their part.
Of course, there is always this can of worms whether some clones that went way past Sinclair specifications, like the ATM Turbo for example, can be called Spectrums. I shall not open it myself here ...
XTM wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:41 pm
This seemingly based on the number of active people on forums.
But this isn't actually the case, as mentioned above
Now, 77 online @XTM,
Our Russian friends:
You can make numbers tell whatever story you want to !
I don't think we can compare the ex Eastern block market (which was obviously all unofficial clones) with the western free market. For example, the Pentagon didn't get released until 1991. (9 years after the UK).
The earliest Russian Spectrum clone mentioned here is 1988.
I know what you mean about the current active users on forums. The numbers on any forum can vary wildly and each time you'll just get a "snapshot in time" at the specific moment. Also, let's not forget Russia has eleven time zones: UTC+02:00 to UTC+12:00. For example, if one were to check both forums at a time where it is 4 am in the UK/5 am in Central Europe, it will be early morning/morning/noon/early afternoon in Russia depending on where you are so you will most likely get more active users there. It's all a bit moot ...
Also you need to take account of these two points:
Some members browse the forum without logging in.
There are more Speccy users than forum members. In the UK the trade on eBay indicates this.
Mark
Standby alert
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
My own (personal nothing more) is to show the total ideally as here with a split between guest/user. This also allows you to monitor unusual guest spikes before any loading restriction may kick in. Aka if for example usual guest traffic is around 20 to 50 then a spike to 300 is worth looking at if it persists to see what if anything is causing it.
But as said its not a competition and its very easily manipulate the figures shown anyway.
XTM wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:41 pm
It might well have been a sunny day all over the UK (yeah right) so the users quickly decided to get out of the house and not waste their time on a forum, drastically skeweing the numbers
Oi! you cheeky monkey, the UK (well, the part I live in) does have some sunny days! Today it's been sunny. Cold, but sunny. At the Pub I'm at, some brave souls were eating their food outdoors.
On the current users question, just out of cursory, if I'm logged in on two different devices, do I get counted once or twice? Not that I make a habit of this. But it may occur occasionally.
Mark
Standby alert
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
If one's Spectrum is a Russian bootleg machine, you can definitely say you're a Spectrum fan or a Spectrum games player, but you can't say you're a Spectrum user or Spectrum owner. The same distinction is true of those who only use emulators.
XTM wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 12:41 pm
It might well have been a sunny day all over the UK (yeah right) so the users quickly decided to get out of the house and not waste their time on a forum, drastically skeweing the numbers
1024MAK wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 7:18 pm
Oi! you cheeky monkey, the UK (well, the part I live in) does have some sunny days! Today it's been sunny.
Actually that could be the case today UK-wide - today has been sunny and clear for most of us. To prove it, here's a selfie from the top of Ingleborough. It's so hot the grass has gone red.
1024MAK wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 7:18 pm
On the current users question, just out of cursory, if I'm logged in on two different devices, do I get counted once or twice?
Good question. If both devices are logged in via the same IP then I imagine once only.
PeterJ wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 9:16 pm
That's the guests Mark. As described earlier I used to not include guests, but have changed it to include guests and the count increases tenfold.
I meant, when you had the guest count disabled, they would not show up, that's all.
Mark
Standby alert
“There are four lights!”
Step up to red alert. Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb
Looking forward to summer later in the year.
Standby alert 
