Little bugs in the database

[8BitAG]

About Semi-Detached:

Was it only published on the B-side of Rubber Maze, or was it later also published separately by Simple Soft?

I don't know. I don't believe we have any additional information about Simple Soft or their games.

[druellan]

I was checking this one:
viewtopic.php?p=19838#p19838

About the game Imperator:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 96&id=2455

And looking for the author, seems that there is an almost identical game, filled as "Emperor"
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/index.p ... 6&id=12874
It even says "Also know as: Imperator"

Hi [mention]moroz1999[/mention] I'm revisiting this one, I'm not sure if we can merge them into one entry, seems that they are different publications of the same game. What puzzles me is that the TAP seems published a year later, and the publisher name is different. Any thoughts? Thanks!

[moroz1999]

Hi @moroz1999 I'm revisiting this one, I'm not sure if we can merge them into one entry, seems that they are different publications of the same game. What puzzles me is that the TAP seems published a year later, and the publisher name is different. Any thoughts? Thanks!

Hi! I've actually reported this once and it's marked as reviewed:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1046&p=19838&hilit ... tsq#p19838

Seems like it's the same game. Produced in 1991, then THD (publisher?) has made a disk version in 1992. And it seems like the tape version was made from the trd file later since it's identical except the loader (so it has a mention of THD disk version as well).

Most probably, the game was a homebrew coded by someone for a tape. Then it was brought to THD (publishing/distribution company) who had made a trd version. And then the TRD version was adapted back to tape by unknown dev.

[druellan]

Hi! I've actually reported this once and it's marked as reviewed:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1046&p=19838&hilit ... tsq#p19838

Oh, drat! didn't follow my own link! Yep! It is fixed but still not landed on the ZXDB.
So, the only thing different is the date, that might place the .tap as published later than the TRD, that sound odd but I can leave it this way until we have more information.

[moroz1999]

Oh, drat! didn't follow my own link! Yep! It is fixed but still not landed on the ZXDB.
So, the only thing different is the date, that might place the .tap as published later than the TRD, that sound odd but I can leave it this way until we have more information.

Ha, I haven't noticed that link in your post myself, I was searching the forum to find it
I've checked file change dates and they are 1994 for tape and 1999 for trd. I think that both are related to backup date, and not related to publishing.
I don't think we would ever see the original tape version of the game. Most possibly it only existed in author's archives. Distribution trd version was already becoming a mainstream in Russia, so I presume that THD just made a disk version because it was easier to distribute. And the tape version we have is some recrack, because it already contains a mentioning of THD

✓ Reviewed

[StooB]

Robin of Sherlock (6900)
- there is no re-release from CRL (2122). The tzx labelled as CRL shows the publisher as Delta 4/Silversoft according to tzxlist.
- CRL's involvement with running Silversoft is noted here:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 686&page=7
- this PCW review gives CRL's address for Silversoft:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 85&page=21

The same issue exists with Bored Of The Rings. The tzx files labelled as CRL and Silversoft are effectively the same, accounting for pauses, and both show "Version CRL v1.0" on the loading screen.

Talos is the other game that Silversoft released with CRL (this review uses CRL's address for Silversoft again), and is currently listed with just a Silversoft release.

For consistency, all three should either have just a Silversoft release, or a joint Silversoft/CRL release, but none of them should have CRL and Silversoft releases.

[8BitAG]

The reality might be more complicated than that, StooB... As illustrated by a fairly recent conversation I had with Fergus...
https://twitter.com/ZXadventurer/status ... 1203351557

Gosh, long time ago now, but I *think* that was the post-SilverSoft version (after they parted ways with CRL) and I guess it was done solely for mail order?

No, it's definitely legit. I have dim memories of my dad driving me back from the duplicators with the boxes of freshly made cassettes

i.e. The (c) CRL version is the version that I'm enquiring about here, which is different to the Silversoft version... It may be that the "CRL version" should be labelled as a "Delta 4" version. I wasn't 100% sure from what Fergus said. But it seems like there was a non-Silversoft re-release of the game that is what's been labelled "CRL".

You'll notice that Bored of the Rings also comes in similar packaging to the Sherlock game I was enquiring about, so will be dated from the same sort of era; potentially after the breakdown of the agreement between CRL and Silversoft.

[druellan]

Robin of Sherlock (6900)
- there is no re-release from CRL (2122). The tzx labelled as CRL shows the publisher as Delta 4/Silversoft according to tzxlist.
- CRL's involvement with running Silversoft is noted here:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 686&page=7
- this PCW review gives CRL's address for Silversoft:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 85&page=21

Also, all the changes on that post are still not in the database, right?

[StooB]

Robin of Sherlock (6900)
- there is no re-release from CRL (2122). The tzx labelled as CRL shows the publisher as Delta 4/Silversoft according to tzxlist.
- CRL's involvement with running Silversoft is noted here:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 686&page=7
- this PCW review gives CRL's address for Silversoft:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 85&page=21

Also, all the changes on that post are still not in the database, right?

Yes, they're all outstanding.

But you can ignore this one:

Devil's Crown (1381)
- original publisher is Probe Software Ltd (UK) (11646), with the Mastertronic (9371) version being a re-release.
- advert:
https://ia600604.us.archive.org/zipview ... Ltd-ad.jpg
- confirmed in this review for Mantronix:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 28&page=36

According to "The Story of US Gold", the Spectrum version was never released by Probe and went straight to Mastertronic.

[8BitAG]

The Delta 4 Sherlock was also discussed in this thread...
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3485

As with the similarly packaged Bored of the Rings, it was a post-Silversoft re-release of the game, so those re-releases should *not* be deleted. The only real question is whether they should be down as a Delta 4 re-release or a CRL one.

[druellan]

The same issue exists with Bored Of The Rings. The tzx files labelled as CRL and Silversoft are effectively the same, accounting for pauses, and both show "Version CRL v1.0" on the loading screen.

Both version also have the follow message inside the code "This version produced by DELTA 4 Software for CRL/SilverSoft". So, seems that it is the same version for both publishers (or the joint venture of them both).
Looking at the magazines, both Silversoft and CRL are mentioned as publishers on the TOP 20 listings, also CRL is mentioned here https://archive.org/details/zzap64-maga ... e+rings%22 so this might be probably why a CRL publication is mentioned on the database.

[StooB]

Bored of the Rings - Silversoft release date is given here as September 16th 1985.

The Delta 4 Sherlock was also discussed in this thread...
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3485

As with the similarly packaged Bored of the Rings, it was a post-Silversoft re-release of the game, so those re-releases should *not* be deleted. The only real question is whether they should be down as a Delta 4 re-release or a CRL one.

CRL started barcoded inlays from The Rocky Horror Show onwards which was May 1985, so those re-releases must be from Delta 4 after the Silversoft/CRL deal.

I think the order is

Bored of the Rings:
1. Delta 4 May 1985 or earlier (nb. the Games Workshop ref is corrected later)
2. Silversoft/CRL September 1985
3. Delta 4, again
4. GI Games 1991
5. Zenobi 1992

Robin of Sherlock:
(there doesn't seem to be any evidence of an original Delta 4 release)
1. Silversoft/CRL November 1985
2. Delta 4
3. GI Games 1991
4. Zenobi 1992

✓ Reviewed

[8BitAG]

One thing that we're constantly battling with, which is just down to the history of how these archives were originally produced, is that fact that all the digital files are disconnected from the associated inlays/scans... In an ideal world each TZX/TAP would be paired with the associated inlays (where appropriate) and it'd be a lot easier to untangle things.

[Einar Saukas]

One thing that we're constantly battling with, which is just down to the history of how these archives were originally produced, is that fact that all the digital files are disconnected from the associated inlays/scans... In an ideal world each TZX/TAP would be paired with the associated inlays (where appropriate) and it'd be a lot easier to untangle things.

In EveryGameGoing, each game edition (including tape image, screenshots and inlays) has a separate page. It may help this investigation.

There's a link to EveryGameGoing at the bottom of SC pages.

[8BitAG]

In EveryGameGoing, each game edition (including tape image, screenshots and inlays) has a separate page. It may help this investigation.

There's a link to EveryGameGoing at the bottom of SC pages.

Yeah... I was checking out some adventure links on there yesterday and the information was total nonsense and completely wrong... so I don't think we can really rely on that site as a source, but I do appreciate their site's structure.

[StooB]

Confirmation in C&VG June 86 that both Robin of Sherlock and Bored of the Rings were re-released by Delta 4.

This magazine reference should be added onto the entries for both games, it's currently just listed under Delta 4.

[8BitAG]

Confirmation in C&VG June 86 that both Robin of Sherlock and Bored of the Rings were re-released by Delta 4.

Good spot. So, the CRL files/references should be changed to Delta 4 re-releases; giving two distinct Delta 4 releases in the case of Bored of the Rings... although it's technically at least three Delta 4 releases, given the known inlay variations. Needs a bit of tweaking in the displayed order too... The Delta 4 re-releases need to come under the Silversoft ones, changing the date to 1986 (for BOTR), to match the news article, should achieve that anyway.

[druellan]

Hi [mention]8BitAG[/mention] Can you take a look at the publishers order here: viewtopic.php?p=67479#p67479 and update the list with the latest findings? So I can have a clear reference to start working on this. Thanks!

[8BitAG]

I think the order is

Bored of the Rings:
1. Delta 4 May 1985 or earlier (nb. the Games Workshop ref is corrected later)
2. Silversoft/CRL September 1985
3. Delta 4, again
4. GI Games 1991
5. Zenobi 1992

Robin of Sherlock:
(there doesn't seem to be any evidence of an original Delta 4 release)
1. Silversoft/CRL November 1985
2. Delta 4
3. GI Games 1991
4. Zenobi 1992

Regarding #3 for Bored and #2 for Robin.

I think having them as Delta 4 would be fine, although technically a release of Delta 4/CRL would probably be more accurate; the date would be 1986, anyway.

[StooB]

Regarding #3 for Bored and #2 for Robin.

I think having them as Delta 4 would be fine, although technically a release of Delta 4/CRL would probably be more accurate; the date would be 1986, anyway.

It wouldn't be more accurate. CRL did not publish either game in 1986, Delta 4 did. CRL only published the Silversoft versions in 1985.

[8BitAG]

It wouldn't be more accurate. CRL did not publish either game in 1986, Delta 4 did. CRL only published the Silversoft versions in 1985.

Yes, I'm happy with it being just listed as Delta 4, despite the fact that the release was authorised by CRL.

[StooB]

Energy Warrior + Molecule Man (11299), Rockford (4214)

- are not published by Mastertronic Added Dimension (9370), but by its replacement "MAD X"
(source: https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/mag.php ... 71&page=23)
- Rockford should also be listed as a compilation because it has 2 games like Energy Warrior + Molecule Man, and named "Rockford + Rockman"

same issue with these titles with "free games" from Alternative:

Dead or Alive - should also have a compilation entry "Dead or Alive + A-Maze"
Lunar Attack - the Alternative re-release should be a compilation "Lunar Attack + Nightmare"
Wind Surfer - the Alternative re-release should be a compilation "Sea Surfer + Skuldugery"

to be consistent with Starburst + Ice Attack which is already a compilation

[druellan]

Finally got some time to attack this one!

5. The authors are listed in SC as "Dino" and "Joey", which is confirmed by the in-game credits. However, the Dino on SC is labelled "(Denmark)" and only otherwise associated with much later demos. The Dino behind Apocalypse was apparently based in England. They could be the same person, but I suspect two different people might have been conflated. Does anyone know more about who Dino and Joey were?

"Dino" is in fact Julian Fuller, based on this article: archive.org/details/popular-computing-weekly-1984-03-29/page/n11/mode/2up?q=%22red+shift%22&view=theater Julian is one of Red Shift's founders, so, confirmed they are not in SLUG or Games Workshop.
Joey must be Joe Capricorn, also part of Red Shift.
We can also add Mike Hayes as a designer, and as part of Games Workshop staff.

[Juan F. Ramirez]

Whenever I try to add a review in spectrum20.org from the SC database, a blank screen with the message 'Incomplete response received from application' appears, both in Chrome & Edge.

Anyone with the same problem?

Aye, I noticed the same thing earlier today, and wrongly attributed it to wonky internet. It's the same if you go directly to Spectrum 2.0, so it must be an issue for Phil to look into (and he can get up to date with ZXDB while he's at it PHILLLLLL!!)

*bump*

Hi, the same issues again when trying to enter spectrum20.org... any hero in the room to solve it?