Devfinitive Edition (Jim Bagley): discussion

[PeteProdge]

A prolific name in the Spectrum's commercial and still with us into the homebrew age!

Though things will get a bit contentious here. I'll explain just after my proposed shortlist:

AttrBike by James Bagley
Baggers In Space by Rusty Pixels
Cabal by Ocean
Crowley World Tour by Rusty Pixels
Gutz by Ocean
Hudson Hawk by Ocean
Midnight Resistance by Ocean
R.A.M.S. by Rusty Pixels
Red Heat by Ocean
Road Runner by US Gold
Scramble by Rusty Pixels
Street Sports Basketball by US Gold
Throne Of Fire by Melbourne House
Warhawk by Rusty Pixels
World Class Leader Board by US Gold

Do Baggers In Space, Crowley World Tour, R.A.M.S. Scramble and Warhawk count, as they are Spectrum Next games? It's a grey area, isn't it, given some people don't view the Next as an authentic Speccy.

I wouldn't count the ZX80, ZX81, QL or Sam Coupe in these polls as they aren't really Spectrums in my view. Never had to think about the Spectrum Next until now, and I guess it raises the question of the American Timex Spectrums and Russian clones like the Scorpion and Pentagon. It's never going to be clear cut.

Anyway, that's what this discussion phase of the poll is for, to reach a consensus on how to proceed. Obviously, I think all the Ocean and other stuff like that are good to go, but if I've made any mistakes in that poll or omitted anything, do raise that here!

[Mpk]

I would tend against including the Next, as it's a different machine. Apples and Oranges.

Also, it means you can do Devfinitive Edition NEXT polls in a few years.

[Stefan]

Do Baggers In Space, Crowley World Tour, R.A.M.S. Scramble and Warhawk count, as they are Spectrum Next games? It's a grey area, isn't it, given some people don't view the Next as an authentic Speccy.

No they do not count, the SAM Coupé is more an authentic Speccy than the Next is, they at least share the same era.

[Swainy]

My favourite game that Jim programmed is Midnight Resistance. Worst or most disappointing is Road Runner.

[stupidget]

As much as I can’t wait to get my Next and play some of Jim’s games, I suppose there aren’t many people who’ve actually played any of them, and won’t vote for them. Probably worth just leaving the Next games out.

[HEXdidnt]

A bit off topic, especially if the Next games aren't going to be included in the poll but, given what Bagley achieved on the original Spectrum, his work on the Next so far seems... pedestrian?

I mean, I guess he's having to learn the machine from the ground up, just like everyone else, and I'm not saying his Next work is bad, per se - it's all smooth and fast - but nothing he's done so far comes close to Cabal or Midnight Resistance, and it puzzles me a little that his new stuff is comparatively underachieving.

[R-Tape]

given what Bagley achieved on the original Spectrum, his work on the Next so far seems... pedestrian?

I wouldn't compare them. His Next stuff is more like a hobby project, catering to retro tastes. His speccy stuff was his bread and butter, with big projects catering to a large audience wanting the best possible and no need to give any nods to nostalgia.

[PeteProdge]

I'm 99% certain I'll exclude the Spectrum Next. It's an odd machine, I love the look of the actual hardware, if it counts as a Speccy then it's the best looking of the whole lot.

I did get to play on one in 2018 thanks to Jim Bagley, who helped hold my camera to film this experience of me playing Baggers In Space and I couldn't really come to a definite conclusion on the Next from having played just one game. However, someone on this forum pointed out the Next gaming experience is just like a load of Amiga PD games, it's quite far removed from anything Spectrum-like. It's a wounding remark as it carries a lot of truth in it (and I loved the PD games scene when I owned an Amiga in the mid-90s) and while I did have the money to pledge to the crowdfunding campaign (which was a lot better run than the diabolical Vega+ shambles, but that's an extremely low bar to clear anyway), yet felt that I should held back, as I avoid being an early adopter these days having witnessed some horrors in consumer electronics.

I'm still working editing the Play Expo stuff I filmed this year in Blackpool and while the Spectrum Next crew had a stand there, it was barely attended. As @HEXdidnt has mentioned, Jim Bagley's Next games are sadly not that stunning. I guess it's difficult to push the envelope on a mysterious computer that comes across like an Atari ST/Amiga/EGA-era PC. You don't know if technical boundaries are being broken or not, because we're in an age where we're so familiar with modern gaming's 3D worlds of near-photo-realistic graphics and natural-sounding audio. The Rusty Pixels games feel good enough to appear as a reader-submitted game on a mid-90s coverdisk from Amiga Format or The One, whereas a genuine ZX Spectrum homebrew game released these days will get kudos if it astounds the Speccy community.

Sure, a new Spectrum in the 21st century has to be objectively technically better than the 128K +3 (the last official Speccy) and that's dead easy, but not to the point where the 'cosmetic surgery' has made it feel too far off from the Speccy. Should have taken the Speccy-but-with-widescreen-size-and-sans-colour-clash route of that PC/Max/Linux game Melkhior's Mansion...



Anyway, that's been quite a lengthy rant, but I wanted to get my disappointment over the Next off my chest and here feels like an appropriate place. I hope I haven't come across as just kicking it for no reason.

Um, back to Jim Bagley's pre-next games it is then. Probably will pick Hudson Hawk, personally.

[HEXdidnt]

I wouldn't compare them. His Next stuff is more like a hobby project, catering to retro tastes. His speccy stuff was his bread and butter, with big projects catering to a large audience wanting the best possible and no need to give any nods to nostalgia.

Fair point, and it makes a lot of sense. I suspect one of the biggest hindrances for the Spectrum Next, generally, will be that it's a much more niche machine, and we're long past that first boom in the British videogame industry. It seems unlikely that the Next will follow a parallel path to the original Speccy because the industry has moved so far on from those days. People often say there's no money to be made in software (except when it comes to some retro consoles, but that's another story). It'll come down to how wide and enthusiastic an audience of hobbyists the Next can attract... and having the likes of Bagley as a torchbearer can only be a good thing.

[MarkRJones1970]

Just don’t mention the Next version of ‘Head Over Heels’ to him! Eeeekk!