Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

For experts to discuss very technical stuff and newbies to ask why the Spectrum they bought off ebay doesn't work.
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disciplePalGuy
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Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by disciplePalGuy »

So you want to read/write MGT format disks in 2024 ? Perhaps archive some of your old floppies to images before they expire in the loft ?
I wondered how images of real Plus D / Disciple / SAM Coupe disks were created and it seems like most of the ways to do this expired with the death of Dos at the turn of the millennium, so I hope this post will help people, as I struggled to find information on how to this in 2024.

Option 1 - Older Emulators / Utility Programs (Difficult in 2024)
Get hold of an old emulator (Realspec or Z80 for example) that has this feature, or a utility program such as SAMdisk https://simonowen.com/samdisk/
You'll need an old PC (P2/P3 vintage) with a real non-USB floppy drive, running DOS natively or a Windows OS sitting on top of DOS (anything Windows ME and before).
The old emulators access the floppy controller either directly or via BIOS INT13H calls and read all 10 sectors/track of the MGT format. New Operating systems do not allow direct access to the hardware so will not work, and likely won't work in something like DOSBox either.

Option 2 Linux (Easy with right hardware)
Get any real PC with a real floppy drive and controller (non-USB) and use the linux dd command with the correct device file for a 800Kb format. This may or may not work virtualised, but definitely works on real hardware.

Floppy to image:

Code: Select all

dd if=/dev/fd0u800 of=image.mgt conv=noerror,sync


Image to floppy:

Code: Select all

dd if=image.mgt of=/dev/fd0u800


If /dev/fd0u800 does not exist it can be created with

Code: Select all

sudo mknod /dev/fd0u800 b 2 120
If your floppy disks are corrupted, you can try something like dd_rescue with all of it's options to try and recover the data - use it with the /dev/fd0u800 device file.

Option 3 Gotek (Easy with right original ZX & MGT hardware)
Use a Gotek device (with Flash Floppy firmware) connected to a real plus D / Disciple & Spectrum as Drive A, and your existing floppy as drive B.
Create image files on the USB stick using an emulator (FUSE for example or the linux dd command to create a 8192000 byte length file) and use the original hardware to copy files using the SAVE D2 "Filename" to D1 command between the real floppy disk and the USB in the Gotek. You will need to format your image file either on the Spectrum or the emulator first using the format d1 command to lay down a MGT filesystem. Note snapshots and microdrive files cannot be copied this way. ]Alternatively you can create a perfect copy of the original floppy to the gotek using the "FORMAT D1 to 2" command on the Spectrum. D1 should be the Gotek with a blank MGT image loaded, D2 the physical disk you want to copy. The Spectrum will format the MGT image in the gotek and do a sector by sector copy of the real disk to the image. Of course you can do the reverse and lay down images from the Gotek to real floppies too.
See this post for correct Gotek setup viewtopic.php?p=139638#p139638

Options 2 & 3 will likely work for ST / Amiga (& other ?) formats, option 3 commands would need to be adapted for those native systems.

A note on USB floppy drives. They won't work for this task. None of them. The USB-if spec around which they are all designed does not cater for the 10 sector/track format and the drive cannot be made to do this (or rather the USB controller attached to the drive can't). if you use the dd method on a USB drive, you end up with a 9-sector/track copy and an image that doesn't work. Your only option is a real, honest to goodness floppy connected to a real honest to goodness floppy controller... USB won't cut it.

Does anyone know any other ways to do this ?
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flatduckrecords
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Re: Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by flatduckrecords »

I use a Greaseweazel with a desktop Intel iMac and a reclaimed PC 3.5" floppy drive. (There are some other tips in the linked thread too).

It works by creating a “flux” level image of the disk so it can cope with any arbitrary disk format. (I normally use the SCP image container). samdisk can convert the flux image into an eDSK or MGT file. The whole process also works in reverse so you scan restore disk images back to real floppies.

The only snag is that my original SAM drives, though refurbished and working well, don’t really like disks that were written by PC (1.44MB, DSHD) drives. So I tend to operate my SAM with a PC drive in the left hand slot and just use a SAM drive for the secondary drive. I only ever use PlusD with PC style 3.5" drives so that doesn’t give me any trouble.

Greaseweasel also works fine with 3" drives (Spectrum +3, Amstrad CPC etc). Just be careful setting the number of tracks so you don’t crash the head into the end-stop and crack the stepper bearing or drive the little sled off the end of the worm screw… (Ask me how I know). I should also be fine (I think?) with 5.25" floppies if you happen to use those with your Disciple/PlusD.

Another option for SAM users is @Quazar’s Trinity interface which can be used to copy to/from SD card and floppy disk on the SAM directly. Again samdisk is handy on the PC/Mac side for manipulating the BDOS records on the SD card.
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8BitAG
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Re: Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by 8BitAG »

I've been able to copy across various CP/M programs to SAM from a Windows XP machine because SAM ProDOS (CP/M for the SAM) has a utility for reading from FAT formatted disks. http://8bitag.com/info/documents/cpm-to-prodos.txt
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disciplePalGuy
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Re: Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by disciplePalGuy »

flatduckrecords wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:38 am I use a Greaseweazel with a desktop Intel iMac and a reclaimed PC 3.5" floppy drive. (There are some other tips in the linked thread too).
Wow, I wish I had of seen that thread previously. It seems that recent Win operating systems with the FDRAWSYS driver does allow the emulators to read/wrtie old disks.
Greaseweazel is another interesting option.
hellraiseruk
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Re: Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by hellraiseruk »

Greaseweazle rocks, use it for making Amiga images, only way to do it with a pc...

JD
disciplePalGuy
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Re: Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by disciplePalGuy »

hellraiseruk wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:43 pm Greaseweazle rocks, use it for making Amiga images, only way to do it with a pc...

JD
Just spent a happy half hour reading about what Greaseweazle can do... it looks amazing. And the hardware is cheaper than a Gotek (of course you need a floppy drive to connect to it).
I think I'm going to invest in one.
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druellan
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Re: Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by druellan »

Some time ago I used an utility called Omniflop for DOS, the author was kind enough to add the format, and I think it keeps working in the new Windows version.

http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm
hellraiseruk
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Re: Options for reading & writing real Disciple / Plus D & SAM disks in 2024

Post by hellraiseruk »

disciplePalGuy wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:55 pm Just spent a happy half hour reading about what Greaseweazle can do... it looks amazing. And the hardware is cheaper than a Gotek (of course you need a floppy drive to connect to it).
I think I'm going to invest in one.
GreaseweazleGUI makes it a lot easier...

https://desertsagesolutions.com/greaseweazlegui/

JD
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