Pricing up the MiSTER

[PeterJ]

Could someone just confirm for me that these two are the same (I'm sure they are!) - Just Digikey are just under £11 cheaper.

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detai ... ND/6817231
£118.63 Including VAT & Customs

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/ ... dJ5w%3D%3D
£129.62 Including VAT & Customs

Thanks

[hitm4n]

As far as i know, all sellers of the DE-10 are resellers of the Terasic boxed version P0496. You get a US plug, even in UK, you get all the same box/manuals etc anywhere and from anyone.

I bought mine from Enrgtech

https://www.enrgtech.co.uk/product/eval ... 4260/P0496

Add vat and delivery, don't know if its cheaper.

[lister_of_smeg]

If you do plan on going with the USB hub and WiFi adapter I would recommend getting a decent power supply:-

https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... er-supply/

So that's another thing to consider.

Pricey, but I had endless reliability problems with cores occasionally crashing or intermittently failing to load at all (problems which went away if I disconnected the hub and WiFi and fell back on just using a wired USB keyboard) until I bought one of these.

[PeterJ]

Thanks [mention]lister_of_smeg[/mention],

I'm going to use it in the room where our router is, so will use ethernet rather than wireless.

[Pegaz]

As far as i know, all sellers of the DE-10 are resellers of the Terasic boxed version P0496. You get a US plug, even in UK, you get all the same box/manuals etc anywhere and from anyone.

I bought mine from Enrgtech

https://www.enrgtech.co.uk/product/eval ... 4260/P0496

Add vat and delivery, don't know if its cheaper.

Omg, shipping & handling outside of EU countries is 55 EUR, no matter if you are in Europe or Papua New Guinea.
Plus destination country taxes&custom costs, plus better PSU, plus dual memmory for the Next core, plus Ear loading addon (this is a must), plus some USB hub... this goes up to the sky...

[PeterJ]

Hi @[mention]Pegaz[/mention],

Maybe you have a retailer in your own country? I'm doing mine for around £150 UK Pounds. See my OP. I'm initially not bothering with the Wireless adaptor (I will use ethernet), and starting off with the cheap £6.99 USB hub that was mentioned in the article that [mention]hitm4n[/mention] linked to.

Each person has to look at their own postage costs and see what solution is best for their needs and of course budget.

Digi-key includes the customs costs. Look at them, and Mouser too. See my earlier post for links.

[Pegaz]

Hi @[mention]Pegaz[/mention],

Maybe you have a retailer in your own country? I'm doing mine for around £150 UK Pounds. See my OP. I'm initially not bothering with the Wireless adaptor (I will use ethernet), and starting off with the cheap £6.99 USB hub that was mentioned in the article that [mention]hitm4n[/mention] linked to.

Each person has to look at their own postage costs and see what solution is best for their needs and of course budget.

Digi-key cover the customs costs. Look at them.and Mouser too. See my earlier post for links.

Thanks Peter, but even without checking, I know that such a retailer doesn't exist, which isn't surprising because maybe a couple of dozen people across the country know what a De10 board is.
Buying from the UK hasn't been a good option for me for a long time, Spain or Germany is a much better solution.
Custom cost & taxes in my country are 31% of the total value of the shipment+postage rate.
I doubt anyone will cover that much...

[PeterJ]

May I ask whereabouts in the world you are [mention]Pegaz[/mention]?

Digi-Key ship from the USA if that helps?

[Pegaz]

I am in Belgrade, Serbia.
As of January 1, the UK also isn't in the EU, but most UK sellers still have far higher postage for us than for EU countries.

[Pegaz]

Just found this page, looks interesting as all-in-one solution.
https://www.mister-fpga.de/sonstiges/mi ... 7873644164

...and according to this, postage rate is much more resonable:
https://www.mister-fpga.de/j/shop/info/ ... 7d9b3c9099

[PeterJ]

Just found this page, looks interesting as all-in-one solution.
https://www.mister-fpga.de/sonstiges/mi ... 7873644164

No cheaper than building your own. The DE10 includes a power supply (admittedly with USA plug do needs adaptor) and the SD card.

[Pegaz]

Just found this page, looks interesting as all-in-one solution.
https://www.mister-fpga.de/sonstiges/mi ... 7873644164

No cheaper than building your own. The DE10 includes a power supply (admittedly with USA plug do needs adaptor) and the SD card.

It's not cheaper, but you get everything in one package.
Thats why I like SiDi board... and 88 eur price, ofc.

btw, Peter your previous message just disappeared !?

[PeterJ]

Hi [mention]Pegaz[/mention], if that suits your personal needs then good. I prefer to pick the individual parts. Each to their own.

Sorry, I was editing it. It's back.

[hitm4n]

I looked at pre-built too, initially i thought building one would be too much for me, i thought there'd be soldering or at least room for user created issues, but its soooooooo easy to put one of these together. Everything just fits to each other, you slap your case or plates round it and its good to go. The pre-built ones will often have premium cases, parts you may not need and larger memory cards with prebuilt setups (which of course adds a little bit more to cost for the setup work).

Building your own is great fun, easy and will save money.

Peter, i see an 8 week lead time on the Enrgtech site now, ouch. I certainly didn't have to wait that long, and postage and vat etc was fine in the UK. Your links are reputable places to buy though, so go for fastest/cheapest.

I got access back to my PC (a while ago actually), so now i can post the list of links and parts i bought. I kept a little spreadsheet to keep track of where i'd bought from, the costs and a running total with notes etc. Heres part of it with a few more thoughts. //note i may have listed a price of a certain item here to include the postage cost, so don't be surprised if the cost seems off along the way.

P0496 DE10-Nano Dev Kit - https://www.enrgtech.co.uk/product/eval ... 4260/P0496 - £122.58
MiSTer IO Board v6.1 with Fan - Stock Fan - https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... -with-fan/ - £41.99
MiSTer USB Hub v2.1 - https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/usb-hu ... ster-fpga/ - £32.99
MiSTer SDRAM XS v2.2 32MB Memory Addon Board - https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... don-board/ - £19.99
MiSTer Protective Cover Plates (Lava Orange) - https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... ates-case/ - £11.99
MiSTer FPGA Bluetooth Adapter - https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... er-dongle/ - £6.95

After these initial 6 parts arrived, i realised, although the IO board has a fan, it didn't have the heatsink. And i decided, after seeing the small 2amp US power supply, to upgrade that too. So a second order went in for these next 2 parts.

MiSTer Heatsink DE10 Nano Cooling - https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... o-cooling/ - £3.29
MiSTer FPGA Power Supply 5 Volt 4 Amps - 5% off on heatsink and psu - https://misterfpga.co.uk/product/mister ... er-supply/ - £18.83

The first order came with a 5% off voucher, you'll get one too. Play the game right, you could do one order, get the voucher, then order the more expensive parts and get more off. Of course i bought all the expensive parts, got the voucher and got 5% off 2 cheaper parts

I played with the original 8gb card, messed with OS and once i'd dumped an Amiga image on there it was full. So next step, more space. And although i had a wired keyboard and mouse to use initially, i wanted to be untethered so needed a bluetooth kb+mouse solution.

Got these 2.
Amazon Integral 256GB Micro SD Card - www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07FC7W2G5/ ... UTF8&psc=1 - £29.99
WiFi Mouse and Keyboard AIO - www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00EDBXB8K/ ... UTF8&psc=1 - £24.99

TOTAL Now - £313.59

So. Theres 3 things this brings up. The DE-10 will come with an 8gb SD card. If you want to get into a lot of the cores, and stuff it with roms/games, then you are going to need a bigger one. Another cost unless you have one kicking around large enough.
For most of the computer based cores, a keyboard and mouse is a necessity. No controller has enough buttons to cover the few keys each core may require to utilise properly. F12 is a pretty fundamental key for the MiSTer (it gets you into the core menu), you can use the button on the IO board, but if you don't have that you absolutely have to have a keyboard.

Point and click adventure games, Amiga stuff, even PC dos stuff, you are going to need a mouse. Now, the one i bought above is really nice and works well, but the trackpad is not accurate or quick enough for games. So i am replacing it with a full size bluetooth mouse and keyboard set. The reason i will go with bluetooth is so i can link it to both the MiSTer and my emulation PC and use them on both without having to swap a wifi dongle back and forth.

And lastly. If you are playing games and you want to be wireless (that was my plan), then a controller for arcade and console cores is another consideration. SNAC controller adapters are not cheap, and i don't have a million controllers from the ages for every system, so i wanted the best all in one solution, again one i can use on both my emulation pc and MiSTer without messing with dongles. So, i got the 8bitDo SN30 Pro+ bluetooth controller. Its amazing. So add another £42 to that total!

It all starts to add up pretty fast.
https://www.8bitdo.com/sn30-pro-plus
https://www.8bitdo.com/#Products

They sell wired and wifi versions too and a well respected. Great well made controllers, mines great.

So. £355, and i just bought an inline switch off Amazon for 3 quid or so and i have the mouse and keyboard to replace. Then i might get a more premium case. If i do, this thing is going to have cost me £450 to build.

And i didn't get any SNAC addons, or the 128mb memory, or a realtime clock or tape input port.

I'll be keen to see what you order, when you start building, pics and shout me if you have questions. I went through a lot of learning of the MiSTer main core options to get mine right on my 65" tv at 1080p. Theres things you can do with scripts, swicthing fonts, having cycling backgrounds (not pictures of bikes). I saved a bunch of links to useful MiSTer stuff along the way too.

Keep us informed with how you get on.
Simon.

[PeterJ]

Thank you [mention]hitm4n[/mention],

Especially for the 5% discount comment. I looked online and the following code works. pezz82

Peter

PS. I've also bookmarked that USB hub that was in one of the articles you linked to yesterday. I appreciate I may need to upgrade it in the future to a powered one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075ZKJ76L/

[Pegaz]

Unfortunately, the De-Nano DE10 board has a new higher price.
I don't know what the reasons are for the new price increase, but it will certainly affect the overall Mister costs.
https://misteraddons.com/products/terasic-de10-nano

[PeterJ]

It's only increased by about £30 here [mention]Pegaz[/mention].

https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detai ... ND/6817231

I'm sure I read that because it's built as a training device for universities that it's sold at a loss, but that this could change at any time. Please feel free to correct me on this. I may well have that wrong.

Devices like this to tend to fluctuate in price sadly. Seeing the prices people pay for retro hardware, I doubt it would put many people off.

[PeterJ]

Admin Moved last two.posts.

[Pegaz]

Well, that 30 pound increase isn’t “only” to me Peter, especially since I don’t see a real reason for it...

[PeterJ]

Well, that 30 pound increase isn’t “only” to me Peter, especially since I don’t see a real reason for it...

I agree [mention]Pegaz[/mention]. £30 is a lot to many people. I think you thought the project was overpriced at the old price - especially because of postage to your home country, so it's obviously not on your shopping list now.

For people who want to or can spend the money it's a fantastic device.

[akeley]

The price hike is a bummer, but MiSTer still has no competition for people interested in more than one core or HDMI.

[PQR]

I lately bought a MiSTer with pretty much all the bells and whistles. In my experience it has been better to buy everything in one go rather than adding bits and pieces over time. Sometimes parts are not available anymore, and you will pay shipping costs multiple times.

I spent quite some time looking for parts and comparing prices trying to find the right deal.
But what makes this calculation difficult are shipping costs, currency conversion rates, and taxes. This has a lot to do with geographical location of course. For me – living in The Netherlands – ordering stuff from outside the EU can be subject to import taxes which is impossible to calculate upfront. Therefore I always prefer to order from companies within the EU.

In my case I was lucky to get a good deal on the DE-10 Nano board. DigiKey supplied me a board for EUR 111,70 including shipping.

Most of the other parts (USB board, IO board, heatsink, 128MB SDRAM, better power supply, official MiSTer case) added around EUR 240,00 when ordered from UltimateMister.com. And from other sources I bought additional parts such as a bigger SD card, RTC module and a WiFi module. Luckily I already own plenty of controllers and a Bluetooth dongle.

All in all it did cost me around EUR 415,00 in total. But like I said – this is with all bells and whistles included.

[clebin]

The Mister is interesting but, TBH, I feel like things have gone backwards since the Mist. I think only I paid £140 for a Mist quite a few years ago now. The software felt rough around the edges, but the hardware was purpose-built in a nice case and it felt like an early computer that was a stepping stone to something else.

I could almost recommend a Mist to a non-techy friend, but not quite. I thought any follow-up would be a more mature, mainstream "turn-key" device with HDMI, a bit more power and a similar price. Instead, prices have gone up and if anything it's more of a geeky build-it-yourself product than ever. I wonder if Intel buying Altera has something to do with this as we're not seeing Moore's law in operation with FPGAs unfortunately.

[akeley]

The Mister is interesting but, TBH, I feel like things have gone backwards since the Mist. I think only I paid £140 for a Mist quite a few years ago now. The software felt rough around the edges, but the hardware was purpose-built in a nice case and it felt like an early computer that was a stepping stone to something else.

I could almost recommend a Mist to a non-techy friend, but not quite. I thought any follow-up would be a more mature, mainstream "turn-key" device with HDMI, a bit more power and a similar price. Instead, prices have gone up and if anything it's more of a geeky build-it-yourself product than ever. I wonder if Intel buying Altera has something to do with this as we're not seeing Moore's law in operation with FPGAs unfortunately.

It has HDMI, is more powerful, the price is actually similar, and you don't really need to "build" anything. Of course, no, it isn't a completely turn-key solution, what with being an open source, hobbyist project. If you want turn-key, you can look at Analogue. The only problem being, it costs 3-4-5 times as much as MiSTer (depending on which scalper you ask, since it's nigh on impossible to buy) and still only offers a fraction of its cores, after a jailbreak.

[clebin]

Similar to £140 in a case, with DB9 joystick ports if you like that kind of thing? You can’t even buy the original Mist for that kind of money nowadays.

I’m not saying the Mister is bad, it just doesn’t represent the kind of progress I’d have expected 5 or 6 years ago. And I think Intel might have something to do with that unfortunately.