The ultimate total number of ZX Spectrum computers produced

[Alone Coder]

Only recently I realized that ZX Spectrum was possibly more spread than Commodore 64. Let's count.

Accurate calculations show that the original extrapolations were wrong and only 12.5 million Commodores 64 were produced: https://www.pagetable.com/?p=547

- 5 millions ZX Spectrum computers were produced by Sinclair (that is the most cited figure that came from journals from the time when the label was sold to Amstrad). Those were sold all over the British Empire and also in Chile.
- 1 million ZX Spectrum computers were produced by Amstrad: "It’s rumoured that Amstrad bought a million tacky SJS-01 joysticks for a dollar each, colour-matched to sell with the Plus Two." http://www.crashonline.org.uk/48/niche.htm (Production of the +3 ceased in December 1990, believed to be in response for Amstrad relaunching their CPC range. At the time, it was estimated about 15% of ZX Spectrums sold had been +3 models.
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/ZX_Spectrum )
- 600 000 Timex Color Computers were sold in USA by August 1983 (ZX Computing Aug-Sep 1983 p18)
- 800 000 Timex Color Computers were sold in Poland: "It was reported in 1986, that TMX Portugal sold over 800,000 TC2048, TC2068 and FDD-3000 units to an un-named entity in Poland." http://www.worldofspectrum.org/timex/
- unknown quantities of Timex Color Computers were sold in Canada, Argentine, and Portugal. Let's guess that there were some 200 000 in Portugal (not a big number for a country where it was produced), and some 200 000 in Argentine. But I don't know of any Spectrum users in Canada. So, overall 1 800 000 Timex Color Computers. (Czerweny Electronica in Argentine also produced domestic clones, in 3 versions.)
- over 1 million ZX Spectrum computers were produced in ex-USSR. Max Buster thought of 3.5 millions based on his collections of serial numbers (now lost), but I accurately put a number of 1.5 millions.
- over 2 million ZX Spectrum computers were produced in Spain. This estimate is based on the number of games from Spain (3551 titles vs. ~2000 from ex-USSR). Let's be careful and just write 2 000 000.
- "TK90X became the first computer for millions of people, not only in Brazil, but in other Latin American countries" https://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det ... -Computer/ "Millions" are at least 2 millions.
- 60 000 Didaktik Gama and some number of Didaktik M and Didaktik Compact. Let's guess of 100 000 total.
- There were a Romanian clones, let's guess of 100 000 (15 000 Řada počítačů CIP-03 alone, and there were 3 other versions of CIP, and also Cobra from ITCI Brasov Romania, Electro Magnetica Jet from Electromagnetica, ICE Felix from Felix HC, and several clones from Memories Factory Timisoara, even with Turbo mode).
- There were domestic Polish clones (5 versions of Elwro), let's guess of 100 000, as Poland is a big country.
- There was Hungarian HT 3080C by Híradástechnikai Szövetkezet. It was made for schools. Let's guess of 10 000 by proportion of Soviet УК-НЦ (310 000) and the population of Hungary and USSR.
- There were GDR clones, for example Spectral from Hübner Elektronik. Let's guess of 10 000.
- dB Spectrum+ was produces in India in thosands. Let's guess of 10 000.
- let's add some 20 000 modern clones (generally not counted, since the re-launch of ATM-Turbo in 2004).
- some amateur clones were made in GDR, Czechoslovakia, Italy etc. Let's guess of 5 000.
- let's add 12 000 SAM Coupé just because we can.

5 000 000 + 1 000 000 + 1 800 000 + 1 500 000 + 2 000 000 + 2 000 000 + 100 000 + 100 000 + 100 000 + 10 000 + 10 000 + 10 000 + 20 000 + 5 000 + 12 000 = 13 667 000

[p13z]

If you're including clones in this total, the C64 has had many over the years, too:

[Lethargeek]

Only recently I realized that ZX Spectrum was possibly more spread than Commodore 64. Let's count

yeah, let's count 4.5 millions of c128s as well, if you count 128k amstrad models and even things like sam coupe on the spectrum side, not to mention wild clone numbers estimations based on very flimsy interpretations of some web articles

[Alone Coder]

yeah, let's count 4.5 millions of c128s as well, if you count 128k amstrad models and even things like sam coupe on the spectrum side, not to mention wild clone numbers estimations based on very flimsy interpretations of some web articles

You see, my figures are pessimistic. I don't use Mac Buster's 3.5 millions in xUSSR. I don't count Canadian Timexes and Argentinian clones. I only count 2 millions TK-90X/TK-95X in all the Latin America, that is low even for Brazil alone (17 million-strong cities in Brazil have 45 millions residents in common, and there are many other cities). Uruguay is small, but Montevideo still has more than 1 million residents. There are many big cities in Peru, the largest of them had 6 millions residents in 1993. This is a vast market with economics comparable to Russia (or even bigger). I only give 10 000 (why not 100 000?) to GDR where at least 6 different clones existed: https://zxpress.ru/article.php?id=17965 . Note, GDR produced its version of Z80 since 1980! I also skip Yugoslavia of which I have no data (however it had strong ZX Spectrum community).

And I don't count Enterprise 64/128.

An optimistic figure will easily cover C128 together with C-One and C64DTV.

[Lethargeek]

You see, my figures are pessimistic. I don't use Mac Buster's 3.5 millions in xUSSR.

still not enough to cover the difference

I don't count Canadian Timexes and Argentinian clones.

doubt there were many, both countries were below 30m, Argentina was poor, the canadians likely preferred american computers

I only count 2 millions TK-90X/TK-95X in all the Latin America,

No, you take a random phrase from a random source and make a global conclusion out of it. This is worst form of rezunism.

Or do you really not getting that "the first computer for millions of people" != "millions of computers sold"

that is low even for Brazil alone (17 million-strong cities in Brazil have 45 millions residents in common, and there are many other cities).

So you think millions of favelados ever heard or cared about home computers? You cannot compare it to the USSR where all the people had their basic needs covered.

Uruguay is small, but Montevideo still has more than 1 million residents. There are many big cities in Peru, the largest of them had 6 millions residents in 1993. This is a vast market with economics comparable to Russia (or even bigger). I only give 10 000 (why not 100 000?) to GDR where at least 6 different clones existed: https://zxpress.ru/article.php?id=17965 . Note, GDR produced its version of Z80 since 1980!

And Mexico produced 6502 legally to feed this "vast market"

And I don't count Enterprise 64/128.

as if there were many of these, even putting aside the fact it wasn't compatible in its basic form

An optimistic figure will easily cover C128 together with C-One and C64DTV.

an optimistic figure must be compared with an optimistic figure too (that is 22+ millions in this case)

[Alone Coder]

So you think millions of favelados ever heard or cared about home computers? You cannot compare it to the USSR where all the people had their basic needs covered.

This is argument against you. Favelados is a sign of polarization. With its GDP per capita comparable to Russia and bigger population, Brazil have to have more rich people than Russia, because it has more poor people than Russia.
As for the source... try to find any other figure. Or else you are Rezun yourself.

As for the optimistic figure for C64+C128, it's 13 (highest error margin in the only accurate count or C64) + 5.7 million (highest unsourced data for C128) + some small figure for FPGA boards (like ours), i.e. < 19 millions.

The optimistic ZX Spectrum figure adds 2 millions more in xUSSR, thus at least 3 millions more in Spain (by proportion), at least 1 more million in Brazil, Uruguay, and Peru, and missing 4*100 000 for Argentine, Canada, GDR, Yugoslavia (I don't think there was ZX Spectrum in Bulgaria). And more than 5000 Western radio amateurs, supposedly 100 000. This is >20 millions.

[XTM]

I am also highly in doubt about the numbers you came up with. For example, I am not sure about this but I don't believe Spectrums were actually manufactured in Spain, yet you just threw out this figure of 2 million for the country alone ... and a lot of the various numbers you list seem optimistic to me rather than pessimistic.

[1024MAK]

I am also highly in doubt about the numbers you came up with. For example, I am not sure about this but I don't believe Spectrums were actually manufactured in Spain, yet you just threw out this figure of 2 million for the country alone ... and a lot of the various numbers you list seem optimistic to me rather than pessimistic.

The Spanish company Investrónica developed the Inves Spectrum + and the Spanish Spectrum 128k model. A company does not do this if it does not have a large market. It does not really matter if they make the computers themselves. After all, Sinclair contracted production out to Timex and to Samsung. And Amstrad also contracted out production of machines to the Far East.

There is also the question of was the number of ZX Spectrum computers exported from the U.K. to Spain included or not included in the figures for Sinclair Spectrums listed above?

Links
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investr ... _Spectrum_+
https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investrónica

In terms of “officially produced” machines, I don’t think we get anywhere near catching up with the Commodore 64.

But there were a lot of different ZX Spectrum ‘clones’, I mean, here is just what Wikipedia knows about. It’s impossible to know how many in total of all these would add up to.

Mark

[Lethargeek]

This is argument against you. Favelados is a sign of polarization. With its GDP per capita comparable to Russia and bigger population, Brazil have to have more rich people than Russia, because it has more poor people than Russia.
As for the source... try to find any other figure. Or else you are Rezun yourself.

no it isn't - a rich man doesn't need 10 units of the same home computer and 10 beggars won't even think about computers

As for the source... try to find any other figure. Or else you are Rezun yourself.

i don't need to, it's not me making number out of the thin air here

As for the optimistic figure for C64+C128, it's 13 (highest error margin in the only accurate count or C64) + 5.7 million (highest unsourced data for C128) + some small figure for FPGA boards (like ours), i.e. < 19 millions.

this is not an optimistic figure for c64+128, as i said it's 22+

The optimistic ZX Spectrum figure adds 2 millions more in xUSSR, thus at least 3 millions more in Spain (by proportion), at least 1 more million in Brazil, Uruguay, and Peru, and missing 4*100 000 for Argentine, Canada, GDR, Yugoslavia (I don't think there was ZX Spectrum in Bulgaria). And more than 5000 Western radio amateurs, supposedly 100 000. This is >20 millions.

you don't even know how many spanish spectrums were imported (and unlike the USSR there were no obstacles to import it)

[toot_toot]

The optimistic ZX Spectrum figure adds 2 millions more in xUSSR, thus at least 3 millions more in Spain (by proportion), at least 1 more million in Brazil, Uruguay, and Peru, and missing 4*100 000 for Argentine, Canada, GDR, Yugoslavia (I don't think there was ZX Spectrum in Bulgaria). And more than 5000 Western radio amateurs, supposedly 100 000. This is >20 millions.

There is absolutely no way the Spectrum sold over 20 million units.

While I think the Spectrum, and it's various clones, likely sold more than the official numbers we know of, as it's been pointed out, how you're getting to 20 million or even 13 million is a huge stretch of the official numbers.

Getting back to your original point that the Spectrum sold more than the C64, there's no way the Spectrum outsold the C64. Those C64 numbers of 12 million you've quoted are on the lower end of the estimated numbers sold, the higher end being 17 -30 million. Jack Tramiel's son has been quoted as saying Commodore were manufacturing 400,000 units a month at one point, with having 30-40% of the US home computing market. Plus you've added Spectrum clones that could barely be thought of as Spectrum computers as well as the SAM Coupe, then you'd have to definitely include the C128.

You're also going with unofficial higher end Spectrum numbers, you'd have to apply the same logic to the C64 numbers, meaning you'd have 30 million C64s and 5.7 million C128s.

The other thing is how many individual users owned a Spectrum or C64, I know that I had two Spectrum's "back in the day", I upgraded from my rubber keyed 48k to a +2 - how many people upgraded their Spectrum to a +2 or 128k, compared to users upgrading their bread bin C64 to a C64c when there was actually no real reason to upgrade the C64, all the C64c did was change the keyboard.

So the question of "Which system had a bigger user base", I'd say the evidence these days points to the C64 being bigger - the modern home-brew game scene is much more active on the C64, "The C64" mini console/computer got a lot more coverage (and sales) compared to the Vega (let's not talk about the Vega+) and YouTube videos - the highest viewed C64 videos are all 1m+ views (and there are lots of them). Ironically the 8-bit guy's video about ZX80, ZX81 gets 900k views, the highest viewed Spectrum video is 500k.

[Ivanzx]

The optimistic ZX Spectrum figure adds 2 millions more in xUSSR, thus at least 3 millions more in Spain (by proportion), at least 1 more million in Brazil, Uruguay, and Peru, and missing 4*100 000 for Argentine, Canada, GDR, Yugoslavia (I don't think there was ZX Spectrum in Bulgaria). And more than 5000 Western radio amateurs, supposedly 100 000. This is >20 millions.

There is absolutely no way the Spectrum sold over 20 million units.

While I think the Spectrum, and it's various clones, likely sold more than the official numbers we know of, as it's been pointed out, how you're getting to 20 million or even 13 million is a huge stretch of the official numbers.

Getting back to your original point that the Spectrum sold more than the C64, there's no way the Spectrum outsold the C64. Those C64 numbers of 12 million you've quoted are on the lower end of the estimated numbers sold, the higher end being 17 -30 million. Jack Tramiel's son has been quoted as saying Commodore were manufacturing 400,000 units a month at one point, with having 30-40% of the US home computing market. Plus you've added Spectrum clones that could barely be thought of as Spectrum computers as well as the SAM Coupe, then you'd have to definitely include the C128.

You're also going with unofficial higher end Spectrum numbers, you'd have to apply the same logic to the C64 numbers, meaning you'd have 30 million C64s and 5.7 million C128s.

The other thing is how many individual users owned a Spectrum or C64, I know that I had two Spectrum's "back in the day", I upgraded from my rubber keyed 48k to a +2 - how many people upgraded their Spectrum to a +2 or 128k, compared to users upgrading their bread bin C64 to a C64c when there was actually no real reason to upgrade the C64, all the C64c did was change the keyboard.

So the question of "Which system had a bigger user base", I'd say the evidence these days points to the C64 being bigger - the modern home-brew game scene is much more active on the C64, "The C64" mini console/computer got a lot more coverage (and sales) compared to the Vega (let's not talk about the Vega+) and YouTube videos - the highest viewed C64 videos are all 1m+ views (and there are lots of them). Ironically the 8-bit guy's video about ZX80, ZX81 gets 900k views, the highest viewed Spectrum video is 500k.

The C64 scene is not much more active than the Spectrum one, it is not even more active, in the best case they are similar (I have reviewed and played many C64 gams because of a book I co-wrote) a came before the mini C64, for example. And I also highly doubt that the C64 sold so many copies, if that had been the case, there should be still a bigger base of C64 fans, specially from the US; a good part of it comes from the UK and Germany/Scandinavia. The C64 scene is quite good (they have some amazingly good games), at a very similar level compared to the Speccy one, that is true, but not superior un quantity/quality

[Lethargeek]

it always puzzled me why the scene was/is mostly european even for the american home computers (both 8 and 16 bits ones)

[AndyC]

it always puzzled me why the scene was/is mostly european even for the american home computers (both 8 and 16 bits ones)

Because of the video game crash of the early 80s in the US. A lot of C64s were sold over there, but they were pushed first and foremost as business machines because gaming was seen as a failed market for some time.So they sat in offices doing "real work" instead of playing games and, crucially, inspiring young gamers to have a go at coding.

In Europe, meanwhile, the home computer market was driving the development of games. Bedroom coding was a massive thing and the generation of developers it fostered is literally the same folks who now make up the scene.

[Ivanzx]

it always puzzled me why the scene was/is mostly european even for the american home computers (both 8 and 16 bits ones)

Because of the video game crash of the early 80s in the US. A lot of C64s were sold over there, but they were pushed first and foremost as business machines because gaming was seen as a failed market for some time.So they sat in offices doing "real work" instead of playing games and, crucially, inspiring young gamers to have a go at coding.

In Europe, meanwhile, the home computer market was driving the development of games. Bedroom coding was a massive thing and the generation of developers it fostered is literally the same folks who now make up the scene.

That makes a lot of sense, and I also have the feeling that many C64 were also sold for academies, schools, etc and never used or used with short purposes. So could be that the amount of C64 sold was quite hight, but the real number of users was not that high.

[Alone Coder]

you don't even know how many spanish spectrums were imported (and unlike the USSR there were no obstacles to import it)

There were obstables since September 1985, namely the tax (INVES label was founded in 1984). Currently I'm trying to find Spanish people to clarify. Unlike you, who is doing nothing to find the correct information.

[Alone Coder]

Those C64 numbers of 12 million you've quoted are on the lower end of the estimated numbers sold, the higher end being 17 -30 million. Jack Tramiel's son has been quoted as saying Commodore were manufacturing 400,000 units a month at one point, with having 30-40% of the US home computing market. Plus you've added Spectrum clones that could barely be thought of as Spectrum computers as well as the SAM Coupe, then you'd have to definitely include the C128.

The point when Commodore were manufacturing 400,000 units a month is included in the only accurate calculation. That point was in 1984. Please read that article. There is absolutely no reason to extrapolate data where we already have data (cited there).
I have included the C128 (even the unsourced 5.7 millions that came from nowhere, like the 30 million C64 figure).

The other thing is how many individual users owned a Spectrum or C64, I know that I had two Spectrum's "back in the day", I upgraded from my rubber keyed 48k to a +2 - how many people upgraded their Spectrum to a +2 or 128k, compared to users upgrading their bread bin C64 to a C64c when there was actually no real reason to upgrade the C64, all the C64c did was change the keyboard.

ZX Spectrum was mostly sold in relatively poor countries, so every computer generally belonged to two users - usually father and son.

So the question of "Which system had a bigger user base", I'd say the evidence these days points to the C64 being bigger - the modern home-brew game scene is much more active on the C64

Can you bring the numbers? I see the opposite.

Ironically the 8-bit guy's video about ZX80, ZX81 gets 900k views, the highest viewed Spectrum video is 500k.

The highest viewed Spectrum video in Russian language is 637K views: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rWCYo1UcOQ&t=75s
And there are many Russian ZX Spectrum videos over >100K views.
This is without any mainstream media coverage of ZX Spectrum in Russia, unlike the C64 in Western countries.

[Lethargeek]

There were obstables since September 1985, namely the tax (INVES label was founded in 1984).

even if true, still nothing like situation in the USSR or Brazil

Currently I'm trying to find Spanish people to clarify. Unlike you, who is doing nothing to find the correct information.

unlike you, i won't rush to spread misinformation and wild guesstimates just for the sake of it without having any proper sources

[Lethargeek]

it always puzzled me why the scene was/is mostly european even for the american home computers (both 8 and 16 bits ones)

Because of the video game crash of the early 80s in the US. A lot of C64s were sold over there, but they were pushed first and foremost as business machines because gaming was seen as a failed market for some time.So they sat in offices doing "real work" instead of playing games and, crucially, inspiring young gamers to have a go at coding.

In Europe, meanwhile, the home computer market was driving the development of games. Bedroom coding was a massive thing and the generation of developers it fostered is literally the same folks who now make up the scene.

doesn't explain the 16-bit euro scene

[p13z]

Because of the video game crash of the early 80s in the US. A lot of C64s were sold over there, but they were pushed first and foremost as business machines because gaming was seen as a failed market for some time.So they sat in offices doing "real work" instead of playing games and, crucially, inspiring young gamers to have a go at coding.

In Europe, meanwhile, the home computer market was driving the development of games. Bedroom coding was a massive thing and the generation of developers it fostered is literally the same folks who now make up the scene.

doesn't explain the 16-bit euro scene

That could be because American kids had all gone the way of Nintendo, and other cartridge based consoles, following on from all this. Tape / disc based systems were more suited to the rest of the world that couldn't afford $50 a game for their kids.

[AndyC]

doesn't explain the 16-bit euro scene

That could be because American kids had all gone the way of Nintendo, and other cartridge based consoles, following on from all this. Tape / disc based systems were more suited to the rest of the world that couldn't afford $50 a game for their kids.

Yeah, the return of gaming in the US was console oriented rather than home computer based and that continued into the 16-bit era. Cartridges were cheaper, game rentals more of a thing. And the whole console thing precluded development groups forming, so there is less of a scene formed there also (although there is something of a blossoming of people who wished they could be console developers taking the opportunity now that modern Dev environments exist).

[toot_toot]

Those C64 numbers of 12 million you've quoted are on the lower end of the estimated numbers sold, the higher end being 17 -30 million. Jack Tramiel's son has been quoted as saying Commodore were manufacturing 400,000 units a month at one point, with having 30-40% of the US home computing market. Plus you've added Spectrum clones that could barely be thought of as Spectrum computers as well as the SAM Coupe, then you'd have to definitely include the C128.

The point when Commodore were manufacturing 400,000 units a month is included in the only accurate calculation. That point was in 1984. Please read that article. There is absolutely no reason to extrapolate data where we already have data (cited there).
I have included the C128 (even the unsourced 5.7 millions that came from nowhere, like the 30 million C64 figure).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_128

Units sold 5.7 million worldwide

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64

Units sold 12.5[2] – 17[3] million

The C64 dominated the low-end computer market (except in the UK and Japan, lasting only about six months in Japan[9]) for most of the later years of the 1980s.[10] For a substantial period (1983–1986), the C64 had between 30% and 40% share of the US market and two million units sold per year,[11] outselling IBM PC compatibles, Apple computers, and the Atari 8-bit family of computers. Sam Tramiel, a later Atari president and the son of Commodore's founder, said in a 1989 interview, "When I was at Commodore we were building 400,000 C64s a month for a couple of years."[12]

Claims of sales of 17, 22 and 30 million of C64 units sold worldwide have been made. Company sales records, however, indicate that the total number was about 12.5 million.[62] Based on that figure, the Commodore 64 was still the third most popular computing platform into the 21st century until 2017 when the Raspberry Pi family replaced it

Now, I know I'm quoting Wikipedia, which isn't the most reliable source, but it's at least a source that's being quoted. The 12 million number comes from actual sales records, so we can mostly assume that it's correct. The numbers you're guestimating for Spectrum sales are that. Guestimates, but based on fairly random assumptions like the population of Brazil....

If we're even going with the basic numbers of 12.5 million C64s and 5.7 million C128s, that's 18.2m in total. I would say there's no way the Spectrum (and clones) even came close to that. But the main thing is that you're not showing any reliable evidence to say how many were in reality sold, so it's total guesswork.

[Alone Coder]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_128

Units sold 5.7 million worldwide

Yeah, it's 5.7 million since this edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =582356502 by a certain expert 98.110.70.181. Who has a whooping number of 11 edits in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... 110.70.181
Previously it was 4 millions.

[Alone Coder]

I've missed something. Some of early Russian home computers had means or add-ons for hardware+software emulation of ZX Spectrum, namely:
- Орион https://zx-pk.ru/threads/26616-emulyato ... atnye.html
- Вектор http://sensi.org/scalar/ware/605/
- Арго http://sannata.org/konkurs/2011/kt1119.shtml

[1024MAK]

it always puzzled me why the scene was/is mostly european even for the american home computers (both 8 and 16 bits ones)

For North American market, three things:

• Price wars with other manufacturers.
• Consoles.
• Dad/father/Uncle etc. bringing home a 8088, 8086 or 286 PC.

That all reduced the available market for Commodore 8 bit and 16/32 bit home computers. You don’t think the American Commodore operation died first before the European Commodore operation for no reason do you?

And some of the above reasons are why Timex gave up with the North American market.

Unless and until real documents giving details of actual numbers of machines sold appear (if any of these documents even exist now), there will just be speculation about the numbers of both Commodore and ZX Spectrum sales figures.

One month’s figures should not be used alone as a basis for extrapolation to get a year’s sales figures. As we know that the biggest sales were made in the run up to Christmas. The months following Christmas, during spring and summer were slow compared to say November and December.

Also, be very careful with the figures given by companies back in the 1980s. Companies liked to quote impressive numbers, but were always reluctant to go into any details behind these figures. So they can’t be relied on.

Similarly, be careful with the figures quoted from memory of people from the industry. Human memory plays tricks with our memory. And with no written source, there is still a temptation to “big up” figures. After all, who is going to challenge these numbers?

In terms of Sinclair, also keep in mind that for most of it’s life, Sinclair did not bother with serial numbers for the ZX81.

Why do you think any of these companies and producers were good at record keeping? Most of the time, they were more interested in dealing with day to day problems. Such as trying to manage production, getting stock to the stores, dealing with production problems. Trying to manage cash flow and trying to keep bankers, investors, and distributors and retailers off their backs.

Mark

[Lethargeek]

For North American market, three things:

• Price wars with other manufacturers.
• Consoles.
• Dad/father/Uncle etc. bringing home a 8088, 8086 or 286 PC.

That all reduced the available market for Commodore 8 bit and 16/32 bit home computers. You don’t think the American Commodore operation died first before the European Commodore operation for no reason do you?

but not for the Apple-II it seems, afaik it was much less popular in Europe, and so there wasn't a scene to speak of