FPGA based computers

Field Programmable Gate Array based devices! As exciting as they sound
Post Reply
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

Hi all,

This is an attempt to do a straw poll. For 2 years now I've been porting various cores to different boards, mostly Xilinx but some Altera, even making my own ZX spectrum FPGA core, using Opus Discovery disk drive, and Multiface 1 / 128. I think I've gathered most of the issues when doing a port with the different technologies, and would like to propose something.

The ZXUno is an easy board to get hold, but the parts seem more difficult, the ZXSpectrumNext is subject to more crowd funding, not to mention those that are sold 2nd hand go for mental prices, and the DE1 / Mister FPGA boards are also quite expensive, so I wanted to create a fairly universal daughtercard for any FPGA of around 10KLuts, and a set of cores where one could simply plug in, specify the pinouts, hit synthesis and away we go.
I would propose three posibilities:
a) a PCB with SMD components for the advanced solderer
b) a single side PCB with TH for the less advanced, but willing home PCBers
c) instructions to make the above using matrix board.
Build cost would be under 20 GBP, plus the FPGA board, which could be a cheaper Chinese board, QMTech are pretty awesome boards with standard connectors for under 50 GBP. Each board would have a set of GPIO pins, with separate power lines that could easily be adapted to any FPGA board.

Also the same card could connect to a RP2040 board such as a RPi Pico to do software emulation instead of FPGA if needed. I'm happy to share my cores, and designs under a open source licence (since most of what I stole was open source anyway :) ).

I'm happy to potter away just enjoying my craft, but as a software engineer of 25 years, and a degree in computer systems engineering, I'm happy to share my endeavours, and have done previously, however, it didn't work on the recipient's FPGA due to a faulty CPU core - I've fixed it now and learned a heap since that previous share.

Also happy to share screen shots and photos of my various boards and designs - they are not pretty, but they work.

So would some people who would like to get FPGA retro cores running locally, but don't have surgeon's hands or salary? If I get sufficient yeses, then I'll set to work documenting and presenting.

Hoping for a positive response,

Microjack.
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

I should add currently running cores:
ZX spectrum (Kryp core, + my own with Opus Discovery disk interface and OSD)
SamCoupe (modified with the OSD from spectrum and can read and write SAM disks from a Fat32 formatted SD card)
CBM Pet 2001
Oric 1 / Atmos
ZX81
CP/M based Z80 (this one I have connected to an old Canon Starwriter Jet300 keyboard and LCD screen)
Galaxian, Pengo and Pacman arcade macines
JupiterAce
Acorn Atom
Acorn Electron
Acorn BBC Micro
Amstrad CPC
Apple 2
Apple 1
Atari-2600
ay38500 based pong
TRS80
CBM Vic20

I may be porting a Next version to it as well, just wondering if it's worth the effort.
Chris23235
Microbot
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:59 am

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by Chris23235 »

This sounds interesting. What kind of video output do you plan to implement?
azesmbog
Manic Miner
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat May 16, 2020 8:43 am

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by azesmbog »

zxmicrojack wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:15 pm I should add currently running cores:
ZX spectrum (Kryp core, + my own with Opus Discovery disk interface and OSD)
The author of the original core is still probably Kyp, not Kryp
With the previous implementation, I never got beyond the loading screen with Dan Dare.
What has changed in the code?
new sources will be available?
Of all this, I would like to see Sam Coupe from OSD
toot_toot
Manic Miner
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:17 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by toot_toot »

Something I’d love to see (and where I think there’s a genuine gap in the market) is a low cost, multi system FPGA device that’s based on the old 8-bit “system in a keyboard” design ethos, similar to the Next, BUT has the keyboard layout functionality that enables the majority of 8-bit and 16-bit computers to be executed. A problem for me, with the Next, was that there are no function keys, meaning it’s almost impossible to run another system like MSX, C64, Atari 800 etc. The Mega65 does seem to do this, but it costs near $1,000, so that’s out of the question as a low cost system!

But it would be amazing to have an all in one keyboard unit that could run multiple computers. Personally, I hate the approach where you get a box that you have to connect a keyboard and mouse to. It just seems so inelegant and at odds with the home computers I grew up with. Nobody had something like a desktop PC or Mac when I grew up! Lol
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

Chris23235 wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:40 am This sounds interesting. What kind of video output do you plan to implement?
I have VGA on all of my boards, but by definition RGB is possible. I also have a monochrome composite out, though other video outs are not impossible. HDMI is just a connector and mapping of the lines to the port. Just whatever is the majority desire.

azesmbog wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:29 am
zxmicrojack wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:15 pm I should add currently running cores:
ZX spectrum (Kryp core, + my own with Opus Discovery disk interface and OSD)
The author of the original core is still probably Kyp, not Kryp
With the previous implementation, I never got beyond the loading screen with Dan Dare.
What has changed in the code?
new sources will be available?
Of all this, I would like to see Sam Coupe from OSD
My humble apologies. I was typing from memory, and working in cryptography a lot as my day job, I must have imported the R. The previous implementation has been all but rewritten. The latter was my first attempt at writing verilog, so had a lot of issues. I am happy to share my new code, so you can have a go at that. Watch this space - will try to share in the next few days. Sam Coupe I forgot to mention also works with a PS2 mouse. It's based on the ZXUNO source, so happy to contribute back.
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

toot_toot wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:06 am Something I’d love to see (and where I think there’s a genuine gap in the market) is a low cost, multi system FPGA device that’s based on the old 8-bit “system in a keyboard” design ethos, similar to the Next, BUT has the keyboard layout functionality that enables the majority of 8-bit and 16-bit computers to be executed. A problem for me, with the Next, was that there are no function keys, meaning it’s almost impossible to run another system like MSX, C64, Atari 800 etc. The Mega65 does seem to do this, but it costs near $1,000, so that’s out of the question as a low cost system!

But it would be amazing to have an all in one keyboard unit that could run multiple computers. Personally, I hate the approach where you get a box that you have to connect a keyboard and mouse to. It just seems so inelegant and at odds with the home computers I grew up with. Nobody had something like a desktop PC or Mac when I grew up! Lol
one of my projects I'm looking at is gutting an old laptop and placing the FPGA board into that, that would have the whole thing in one, but I also bought an old wireless keyboard integrated with a mouse pad, about the size of an C64, (but less deep). I agree the main feel of our collective experience with 1980s computers is the computer integrated with keyboard and plugging a monitor into it. I'll have a look at what is possible. Maybe we have the option to bung it into a keyboard casing?
User avatar
clebin
Manic Miner
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:06 pm
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
Contact:

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by clebin »

zxmicrojack wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:09 pm b) a single side PCB with TH for the less advanced, but willing home PCBers
I guess I fall into that category, and I'd enjoy tinkering with something like this. I recently got myself a soldering station, and am practicing on a DIY oscilloscope kit having not soldered since school. When I'm a bit more confident I'm hopefully going to be socketing and replacing some dodgy RAM on an Atari 130XE and a few other little projects.

But I'll be honest, I'm a bit crap. It's a lot harder than a) I remember, and b) people on YouTube make it look. Through-hole looks like the extent of my abilities for the foreseeable future...
I may be porting a Next version to it as well, just wondering if it's worth the effort.
The library isn't huge but there's some more quality games in the pipeline. However it's also a very nice interface for classic Spectrum stuff that lets you browse games and choose mode/machine very easily. If it's a choice where to put your time, maybe C64, MSX and Atari 800/XL/XE would be more beneficial to round off the 8-bit platforms. That's already an impressive list of cores though.
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

clebin wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:19 am I guess I fall into that category, and I'd enjoy tinkering with something like this. I recently got myself a soldering station, and am practicing on a DIY oscilloscope kit having not soldered since school. When I'm a bit more confident I'm hopefully going to be socketing and replacing some dodgy RAM on an Atari 130XE and a few other little projects.

If it's a choice where to put your time, maybe C64, MSX and Atari 800/XL/XE would be more beneficial to round off the 8-bit platforms. That's already an impressive list of cores though.
Thanks for your feedback. Genuinely I'm a bit of a plateau, so wondering what to do next, and this helps. For the sake of future proofing, it would be good to use only off the shelf components. Maybe there's an existing keyboard solution, like one of the silicon ps2 / usb bendy keyboards inside a simple acrylic case possible for the integrated keyboard. That way you'd get a full keyboard as well as the rubber feel of the speccy.
User avatar
Nitrowing
Manic Miner
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:38 pm
Location: Cleethorpes

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by Nitrowing »

I'm a fan of the keyboard computer (I have a RPi400 sitting alongside my Sinclairs :D ) - the only problem with this is that I sit on the sofa and the keyboards are about 7' away :? An ideal computer would have the option to add an external keyboard/mouse via USB or Bluetooth.

Anyone used an Asus Eee? A 9" laptop PC that was perfect for travelling with and had full Linux/Windows support. I actually bought an old one to see if I could put a Spectrum board in there. It's close but I couldn't get a keyboard interface :? Much easier to just run an emulator on it :lol:
User avatar
desUBIKado
Microbot
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:27 am

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by desUBIKado »

azesmbog wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:29 am The author of the original core is still probably Kyp, not Kryp
With the previous implementation, I never got beyond the loading screen with Dan Dare.
What has changed in the code?
new sources will be available?
Of all this, I would like to see Sam Coupe from OSD
Yes, its kyp or kyp069 https://github.com/Kyp069

Now he is very busy with the core of Elan Enterprise.

This past weekend I published a very important cores update for ZX-Uno ( http://retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=200037915 ). Check it out.

It would be great if you could update your mcleod_ideafix core modifications with the latest changes that have been added in the EXP27-050222 release:
  • core43 (Spectrum EXP27-2021.07.17 TS-FM azesmbog).ZX1
  • core44 (Spectrum EXP27-2020.05.30-DMA).ZX1
We miss you in the ZX-Uno Telegram group. :D
User avatar
desUBIKado
Microbot
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:27 am

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by desUBIKado »

zxmicrojack wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:15 pm I should add currently running cores:
ZX spectrum (Kryp core, + my own with Opus Discovery disk interface and OSD)
SamCoupe (modified with the OSD from spectrum and can read and write SAM disks from a Fat32 formatted SD card)
We would love to see these cores running on the ZX-Uno!

If you intend to port them to the ZX-Uno I'd be happy to add you to the ZX-Uno Telegram group. There are people there who make cores and ports like mcleod_ideafix, kyp, Spark2k06, Neuro, Fernando Mosquera or avlixa.
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

Indeed I remember them - sold one not long ago. I have an Acer Aspire A110 as well, similar line. I was given them shortly after they came out when ppl realised they're not actually that useful :D. I just converted an old word processor (Canon Starwriter jet300) - removed the printer and the processor board, and replaced it with a Xilinx Spartan 3e-500, VGA output, LCD screen, onboard keyboard and external PS2. It now boots to CP/M and I can run spreadsheets and such from the onboard keyboard and LCD screen, as well as plugging in an external keyboard and monitor and do the same.

Of course, that's hardly for a Spectrum computing forum, but it's one example of how we can takeover less useful builds and use them - there was plenty space for many boards in that device when the printer was removed. Of course we need something off the shelf, cheap and with enough space. I've not seen that many keyboard enclosures for that criteria. However, an acrylic box with a standard keyboard might be the ticket. I don't want to butcher much of history, but old word processors seem to fall into that category, and there will be plenty of those knocking around - no-one will be hiking the price of an obsolete piece of office equipment. Who at the end of the day views their workplace 30+ years ago with nostalgia?
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

desUBIKado wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:27 am
zxmicrojack wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 11:15 pm I should add currently running cores:
ZX spectrum (Kryp core, + my own with Opus Discovery disk interface and OSD)
SamCoupe (modified with the OSD from spectrum and can read and write SAM disks from a Fat32 formatted SD card)
We would love to see these cores running on the ZX-Uno!

If you intend to port them to the ZX-Uno I'd be happy to add you to the ZX-Uno Telegram group. There are people there who make cores and ports like mcleod_ideafix, kyp, Spark2k06, Neuro, Fernando Mosquera or avlixa.
Would love the opportunity of contributing back to the community I've borrowed so much from, however I don't have a ZX-UNO - though it's my birthday in a few weeks time, I think I'll purchase a PCB, acquire the bits and back port my changes. If you can recommend a good source I'm happy to move in that direction. Please add me to the ZX-Uno Telegram group.
User avatar
spider
Dynamite Dan
Posts: 1103
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 10:59 am
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by spider »

Some of the content of the topic is a bit beyond me however (in a basic way) I do understand it and am looking forward to continue reading more. :)
Chris23235
Microbot
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:59 am

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by Chris23235 »

zxmicrojack wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:48 am
toot_toot wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:06 am Something I’d love to see (and where I think there’s a genuine gap in the market) is a low cost, multi system FPGA device that’s based on the old 8-bit “system in a keyboard” design ethos, similar to the Next, BUT has the keyboard layout functionality that enables the majority of 8-bit and 16-bit computers to be executed. A problem for me, with the Next, was that there are no function keys, meaning it’s almost impossible to run another system like MSX, C64, Atari 800 etc. The Mega65 does seem to do this, but it costs near $1,000, so that’s out of the question as a low cost system!

But it would be amazing to have an all in one keyboard unit that could run multiple computers. Personally, I hate the approach where you get a box that you have to connect a keyboard and mouse to. It just seems so inelegant and at odds with the home computers I grew up with. Nobody had something like a desktop PC or Mac when I grew up! Lol
one of my projects I'm looking at is gutting an old laptop and placing the FPGA board into that, that would have the whole thing in one, but I also bought an old wireless keyboard integrated with a mouse pad, about the size of an C64, (but less deep). I agree the main feel of our collective experience with 1980s computers is the computer integrated with keyboard and plugging a monitor into it. I'll have a look at what is possible. Maybe we have the option to bung it into a keyboard casing?
I always found that the Pi400 cases look like they could be easily adapted.
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

Chris23235 wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:28 pm I always found that the Pi400 cases look like they could be easily adapted.
But quite expensive, I've not found the keyboard available separately.
User avatar
ZXDunny
Manic Miner
Posts: 498
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by ZXDunny »

Nitrowing wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:03 am Anyone used an Asus Eee? A 9" laptop PC that was perfect for travelling with and had full Linux/Windows support. I actually bought an old one to see if I could put a Spectrum board in there. It's close but I couldn't get a keyboard interface :? Much easier to just run an emulator on it :lol:
Image
Chris23235
Microbot
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 11:59 am

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by Chris23235 »

zxmicrojack wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:05 pm
Chris23235 wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:28 pm I always found that the Pi400 cases look like they could be easily adapted.
But quite expensive, I've not found the keyboard available separately.
Yes, it is quite expensive, this is true (not if you plan to use the Pi4, then it is reasonable). The keyboard is sold seperately but in a smaller case. I have the seperate keyboard and had a look at it, it is to small to fit a micro computer board.
User avatar
Nitrowing
Manic Miner
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:38 pm
Location: Cleethorpes

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by Nitrowing »

ZXDunny wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:24 pm
Nitrowing wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:03 am Anyone used an Asus Eee? A 9" laptop PC that was perfect for travelling with and had full Linux/Windows support. I actually bought an old one to see if I could put a Spectrum board in there. It's close but I couldn't get a keyboard interface :? Much easier to just run an emulator on it :lol:
Image
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194770579458 £50 but only 1GB RAM & 16GB hard drive

Image
zxmicrojack
Drutt
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:29 pm

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by zxmicrojack »

Loving the idea of putting the laptop to good use, but I was thinking more of removing all the innards, and fitting a VGA to LVDS then an FPGA board inside. OR even just externalising the keyboard, mouse and video so that I have a truly portable desktop KVM.
User avatar
Nitrowing
Manic Miner
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:38 pm
Location: Cleethorpes

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by Nitrowing »

zxmicrojack wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:25 pm Loving the idea of putting the laptop to good use, but I was thinking more of removing all the innards, and fitting a VGA to LVDS then an FPGA board inside. OR even just externalising the keyboard, mouse and video so that I have a truly portable desktop KVM.
A 48K board fits almost perfectly in an Eee, I'll take a couple of photos...
User avatar
Nitrowing
Manic Miner
Posts: 610
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:38 pm
Location: Cleethorpes

Re: FPGA based computers

Post by Nitrowing »

Eee and 48k boards
Image

48k board and Eee case
Image

48k board on Eee case

Image
Post Reply