Can AY be played at the same time as samples?

[Lee Bee]

I'm not aware of any game where AY plays at the same time as speech/samples, or any tracker software that combines both types of sound. (Shame!)

In fact, gameplay always seems to freeze during sample playback.

Am I right in assuming that sample playback is hugely processor intensive and you can't do anything else at the same time?

[p13z]

Yes, sample playback is very processor intensive - but playing samples on the beeper, whilst playing AY music should be possible, as simple AY music is very processor un-intensive.
Can't think of any examples of this in action though.

[Lee Bee]

It's quite rare to have music that uses both AY and Beeper. One great example is Chase H.Q.

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

you can't do anything else at the same time?

can
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIcBaSIdSA4[/media]

but you need to count every cpu tact...

[Lee Bee]

can
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIcBaSIdSA4[/media]

Wow, this video answers every question I had, and blows my mind!

[Ralf]

Some rules:

- you can play samples both on Beeper and AY.
- samples are CPU heavy, both on Beeper and AY
- AY music is light on CPU usage (more or less, depending on the player)

So yes, you can play samples on beeper and music on AY at the same time. It's harder but it's possible.
You could also play a sample on one AY channel and music on remaining channels.

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

ay+covox drumZ
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWwYir3X1-E[/media]

[catmeows]

In fact, gameplay always seems to freeze during sample playback.

Buzzsaw plays sample during gameplay. It is quite special case but it shows it can be done.

[Lee Bee]

Wow, I had not heard of Covox, which I'm guessing is some kind of sample-based sound engine.

Just found this impressive piece of music...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMresHqiwDs

So it seems the Spectrum can indeed do sample music, it's just not practical while too much is happening on screen, but quite possible for title screens, menus, etc.

I guess it's still early days in the Spectrum's life - this will no doubt be exploited more in future!

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

20 years ago...
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPw9Cdot7io[/media]

[1024MAK]

Wow, I had not heard of Covox, which I'm guessing is some kind of sample-based sound engine.

Just found this impressive piece of music...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMresHqiwDs

So it seems the Spectrum can indeed do sample music, it's just not practical while too much is happening on screen, but quite possible for title screens, menus, etc.

I guess it's still early days in the Spectrum's life - this will no doubt be exploited more in future!

Keep in mind that not running on a standard U.K. Speccy… That is using a more sophisticated sound chip.

It is a good piece of music though

Mark

[Lee Bee]

Keep in mind that not running on a standard U.K. Speccy… That is using a more sophisticated sound chip.

Thanks for pointing that out, I had no idea! Personally I'm only interested in standard Speccy hardware.

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

a more sophisticated sound chip.

Nanotechnology

[Stefan]

Wow, I had not heard of Covox, which I'm guessing is some kind of sample-based sound engine.

Covox is just a simple 8 bit DAC, it needs to be manually pumped with sample data just like an AY or beeper sample, the only big difference is that it provides 8 bit resolution vs the three AY channels @ 4 bits or the beeper at 1 bit.

Just found this impressive piece of music...

So it seems the Spectrum can indeed do sample music, it's just not practical while too much is happening on screen, but quite possible for title screens, menus, etc.

Anything by Jogeir Liljedahl is impressive A stereo covox-like device was available for the SAM Coupé, the SAMdac, but as with anything sample based, memory matters - and even 128K is on the tiny side.

[Stefan]

a more sophisticated sound chip.

Nanotechnology

Indeed, a simple resistor ladder...

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

A stereo covox-like device was available for the SAM Coupé,

soundrive
4 channel angry russian covox
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMeMbfQfnl0[/media]

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx1lv6M0mzM[/media]

[Stefan]

soundrive
4 channel angry russian covox

Holy crap, it's a 4 channel DAC... and it does not need strobe to select channel. Nice!

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

a more sophisticated sound chip.

for comparsion
ultra rare angry russian DMA Ultra Sound Card

[media]http://zxbyte.ru/video/dma.webm[/media]

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

angry russian zxm sound card extreme
tsfm+saa1099+soundrive


moar angry russian NeoGS (also gs/ngs has covox mode)


angry russian NeoGS as 3D Accelerator %)
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Br5w2evNE[/media]

[1024MAK]

a more sophisticated sound chip.

Nanotechnology

Take the mickey if you must
Yes, it’s a DAC. And what do you think is driving those resistors? I was trying to keep the description simple. Most people would regard a 8 bit DAC as more sophisticated than either the bleeper or a AY being used to play back samples.

Resistor DACs have also been used with Acorn BBC Micros and IBM PC compatibles. See here.

Mark

[NEO SPECTRUMAN]

Most people would regard a 8 bit DAC as more sophisticated than either

if covox is more sophisticated

what about classic general sound? $)


moar authentic version

[Stefan]

Take the mickey if you must
Yes, it’s a DAC. And what do you think is driving those resistors? I was trying to keep the description simple. Most people would regard a 8 bit DAC as more sophisticated than either the bleeper or a AY being used to play back samples.

Since the Spectrum / CPU is driving those resistors without any buffer / DMA support, I don't see how most people would regard this as being more sophisticated than continuously writing to the speaker on port 254.

The AY chip on the other hand is orders of magnitude more sophisticated than beeper or resistor DAC.

[1024MAK]

Take the mickey if you must
Yes, it’s a DAC. And what do you think is driving those resistors? I was trying to keep the description simple. Most people would regard a 8 bit DAC as more sophisticated than either the bleeper or a AY being used to play back samples.

Since the Spectrum / CPU is driving those resistors without any buffer / DMA support, I don't see how most people would regard this as being more sophisticated than continuously writing to the speaker on port 254.

The AY chip on the other hand is orders of magnitude more sophisticated than beeper or resistor DAC.

When the AY chip is used as a DAC, it’s not being used as intended, and hence it’s not more, but less sophisticated in this ‘mode’. And the Z80 is also having to “continuously write” to it.

In theory (if the resistors have a tight tolerance), an 8 bit DAC can generate 255 levels (plus “0V”). That’s significantly more than an AY chip used as a DAC. And a 8 bit DAC requires less Z80 cycles compared to trying to use pulse width modulation of the 1 bit bleeper.

Is an 8 bit DAC more sophisticated than an AY chip used as the manufacturer intended? Well, that depends on what sounds or music you want to make. But generally, yes, then the AY is normally considered to be more sophisticated, because it can generate sine waves (tones) without any further Z80 activity, until you want to change the note.

Mark

[Lee Bee]

I got very excited about Covox before I learned it was hardware, not software!

What I'm interested in is standard Speccy hardware, and I guess Ralf has answered my question very well - thanks!

Some rules:

- you can play samples both on Beeper and AY.
- samples are CPU heavy, both on Beeper and AY
- AY music is light on CPU usage (more or less, depending on the player)

So yes, you can play samples on beeper and music on AY at the same time. It's harder but it's possible.
You could also play a sample on one AY channel and music on remaining channels.

Hopefully one day, samples will be easier to integrate with music. Just the ability to have a couple of short samples would open so much musical possibilities, especially for drums!

[Stefan]

Hopefully one day, samples will be easier to integrate with music. Just the ability to have a couple of short samples would open so much musical possibilities, especially for drums!

Beeper drums are excellent!

https://twitter.com/aymusicbot/status/1 ... 75488?s=21