Games where you control the environment, not the subject

[equinox]

This came up on the CSSCGC thread, where we were talking about the "Screwball Scramble" game: you have to carry a metal ball across a complicated course, by operating various switches and levers, so that it is carried around by magnets and slopes.

That's not a computer game: it's a physical board game with a real metal ball.

But it made me think: I've seen a few games where you control the "surrounding environment", instead of the subject. The main one that I remember is Bill's Tomato Game on the Amiga: the tomato cannot move, but you can control conveyor belts, electric fans, etc. to push and bounce it around.
Another example would be On the Ball on the Nintendo SNES: you can't exactly control the ball, but you can rotate the entire maze, and gravity, so that the ball moves and falls in certain directions. (Of course, this one relied on the special rotation hardware in the SNES...)
I believe the PC (MS-DOS) had a few other games of this kind, where you had to build complicated machines to achieve an aim -- although I'm not sure whether they always had a moving "subject".
And one more: there was a Shockwave Flash browser game where you had to move a bunch of complex stuff around, to allow a slow snail to get through a course.

Did the Speccy ever have any game of this kind? If not, why not?
It's like anti-Lemmings. We should certainly have one

I can think of just one: Zeppelin's Sleepwalker (1992; possibly influenced by the dissimilar Amiga game of the same name), which I never properly understood, and was panned by reviewers because the sleepwalking dude had too much randomness (?).

[Hank Scorpio]

The closest I can think of is Fred's Fan Factory, a rather obscure game from Software Super Savers. The object is to safely guide the balloon man to the exit at the top of the screen without bursting on the green spikes. But rather than controlling the balloon itself, you control the man at the bottom who has to switch on the right coloured fan to blow thew balloon across the platforms. It's quite frantic at times and deserves more credit than what some of the magazine reviews gave it at the time.

[zup]

There were some games for the Gunstick (i.e.: Guillermo Tell) where you had to protect the main character, shooting the enemies on the environment. Maybe that's an early example of the dreaded "escort" missions on modern games. Does it count?

Also, I remember (but don't like) some games where you have to control some "bridges" so some characters could complete their way safely. Thinking about that, I guess that Loco-Motion fits the description... you don't control the train but the rails (what about those "powerbox" games... do you control the trains or the rail switches?).

Sim City and also most god-like games... well, you control the environment but not the inhabitants.

[equinox]

Also, I remember (but don't like) some games where you have to control some "bridges" so some characters could complete their way safely.

Yeah I guess technically we could include things like Cliff Hanger, but that's more along the lines of Dragon's Lair (hit the right buttons) than actually really having any control over the environment.

[worcestersource]

In Highway Encounter, you don’t control the drones, so have to clear the route for them ahead.

[uglifruit]

Whilst not exactly what you're describing I always found A Whole New Ball Game and Brainstorm (both by Pete Cooke) very much evoked that flavour. (Lemmings too).

The Incredible Machine (pc) doesn't seem outside the realms of possiblity on the spectrum. I'd like to see that.

Incidentally I wonder if Rare's N64 Blast Corp owed anything to Highway Encounter.

[clebin]

This came up on the CSSCGC thread, where we were talking about the "Screwball Scramble" game: you have to carry a metal ball across a complicated course, by operating various switches and levers, so that it is carried around by magnets and slopes.

For Screwball Scramble, the game that immediately springs to mind is Tilt.

[equinox]

Whilst not exactly what you're describing I always found A Whole New Ball Game and Brainstorm (both by Pete Cooke) very much evoked that flavour. (Lemmings too).
The Incredible Machine (pc) doesn't seem outside the realms of possiblity on the spectrum. I'd like to see that.
Incidentally I wonder if Rare's N64 Blast Corp owed anything to Highway Encounter.

Pete Cooke was an underrecognised genius, and WNBG was probably his least interesting work (post 1985), but yeah, a great game, and as you say, the ball just rolls and you must stick gates and deflectors in the path. (Forever ago, 1998, I actually re-made that game for Windows: it's so long ago that I can't even run my remake any more. So nobody else shall suffer through my extra 26 Bas**rd levels A-Z.)

Rare -- well every Rare game owes everything to something.

[equinox]

For Screwball Scramble, the game that immediately springs to mind is Tilt.

Tilt -- very good call, indeed, the ball rolls and you move the maze. It's barely playable. The only (??) obstacle in the game is the doors in the maze, which open slowly when you approach them, according to rules set by Satan himself. Good grief.
IN THEORY (and not the practice) it's a cool game idea. I guess they were trying to do pinball etc.
Don't know if any of you nerds play Doom much, but the annoying random door-opening of Tilt actually reminds me a lot of that arch-vile level in Plutonia... no? nope? Thought not.

[Lee Bee]

Tilt -- very good call, indeed, the ball rolls and you move the maze. It's barely playable.

Strongly disagree! Tilt is an absolute blast, one of the best Spectrum games ever made and easily one of my top 10 favourites, if not top 5. Such a simple concept but incredible fun. The title music is great too. If anyone isn't familiar with it then I highly recommend giving it a go.

The only (??) obstacle in the game is the doors in the maze, which open slowly when you approach them, according to rules set by Satan himself. Good grief.

No, no, no! This kind of idle speculation does a terrible disservice to this great game and I think you need to give it more of a chance. The doors don't open automatically, they're controlled by the player (press fire to open them). As for obstacles, the entire maze is one giant obstacle, since you die if the ball touches the walls.

IN THEORY (and not the practice) it's a cool game idea.

What can I say, you're just plain wrong For me, Tilt is a perfectly-crafted, brilliantly-executed, flawless game. (And David Darling didn't even pay me to write this!)

[Oloturia]

In Humpty Dumpty Meets the Fuzzy Wuzzies you rotate the maze and things fall, but they have no motion by themselves.

[equinox]

What can I say, you're just plain wrong

Nope this is all bullsh*t, the only excuse is that Lyndon Sharp did a nice tune for it (MAYBE, unless it was one of the notorious Whittaker tune rips).
Where's your CGC entry, leebee?
give me a hug. come on. take him away. he doesn't understand what he's doing.

[Lee Bee]

give me a hug. come on. take him away. he doesn't understand what he's doing.

You are certainly an expert at 'talking balls' Admit it, the real reason you hate Tilt is you're constantly boozed-up and can't handle all that swaying!

[equinox]

You are certainly an expert at 'talking balls' Admit it, the real reason you hate Tilt is you're constantly boozed-up and can't handle all that swaying!

mods! MODS! MODS! This man is triggering me, also his CGC entries suck.

[Mpk]

his CGC entries suck.

Isn't that the entire point?

Anyway, I've only played the ( presumably inferior ) C64 version of Tilt, and it's fantastic.

[R-Tape]

In Humpty Dumpty Meets the Fuzzy Wuzzies you rotate the maze and things fall, but they have no motion by themselves.

Excellent shout.

[R-Tape]

But it made me think: I've seen a few games where you control the "surrounding environment", instead of the subject.

Captain Drexx? Maybe it's not exactly what you have in mind, but it certainly fits the bill - the only Tower Defence game on the Speccy AFAIK.

[R-Tape]

And there's Banger Management. At first glance you'd think it was Lemmings, but you control the background and not the sprites.

[equinox]

Hey -- answering my own question -- I've just remembered a game called "Coughdrops" that was published on the Outlet diskzine in the 1990s:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/x-list?text=coughdrops

In this game, you move the platforms left and right, and the "coughdrops" fall down into the spaces that are created. Another thing I ported to Windows when I was first learning how to code on that OS.

[spider]

This sounds like a sort of "Tamagotchi" type of game/simulation ?

[equinox]

Whoa, I got another really good one: Titan:
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/alt/529 ... trum/Titan

This is, in a way, like Pete Cooke's Whole New Ball Game, because there's a ball that bounces back and forth, and you change its motion by sticking things in the way. It's actually a really strange game. I would recommend spending some time with it. It's a deeply flawed game, but it rewards a bit of exploration.

I RZXed this thing and it was total horror. But I felt so good afterwards. Only time I've had a multiple o????m.

[spider]

Never played it (I probably should take a look at it) that "Little Computer People" , with that game are you not in control of their environment rather than the characters ?

[equinox]

Never played it (I probably should take a look at it) that "Little Computer People" , with that game are you not in control of their environment rather than the characters ?

Absolutely not what I meant when I started this thread, but yes. You can't make them do things explicitly. You can only nudge them in the desired direction ("please write me a letter"). It's like writing the Sun editorial.

(Before someone suggests Lemmings: yeah I know you can dig with one lemming and let the other 99 fall down the hole, but that doesn't count, ????face. That's just Bitcoin pyramid schemes?)

[Lee Bee]

Don't forget Pipe Mania



There's also the pinball games.



I guess you could also include god games such as Sim City or Amusement Park.

And there's Banger Management.

How could I have not seen this excellent game before?

Never played it (I probably should take a look at it) that "Little Computer People"

I never managed to track this down for the Spectrum, but as a kid I was utterly enchanted by the C64 version.

[Turrican]

I forgot the name but that game where you control mirrors that reflect lasers or light.... Something like that.