Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

Propose new game/software design concepts or new game/software ideas. They can be as whimsical as you like, just be careful you don't ask someone to make it for you...
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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redballoon wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 6:18 pm Rather than the Exogorth firing fireballs, why not have it firing Mynocks? I’m not sure if they can survive in space, but it makes more sense than fireballs.
I did consider that for a while... The only issue, really, being scale. A Mynock would be less than 1px in size based on the size of the Falcon sprite. I guess I defaulted to fireballs for simplicity's sake, rather than trying to design a 'bullet' that looks like a dinky bat-creature.
As for the Bespin City backgrounds, it’s one if the few things from the remastered special editions that I reckon are fine. It’s probably one of the least invasive changes and definitely works in its favour.
That is true... and it improved the sense of Cloud City's scale by showing hints of external geography. Pretty sure I remember the external views of the city implying windows all over the place, so the fully-enclosed interiors of the theatrical version looked all the more artificial.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Been fussing over the Dagobah image this evening... possibly rather than face up to what I have planned for the 'bonus' level, since that will involve drawing even more trees...
Image
Basically, added a bit more greenery.

Not sure I'm happy with the swamp pit yet... looks too clean... but, short of recolouring the ground, I can't make it 'brown'.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

Post by Lee Bee »

This concept is looking incredible, wish it were a real game. Maybe you could approach Zosya to get it made it into a real game.

Honestly, the only (incredibly minor) detail I'm not 100% sure about is the strong red logo colour. Great for a title screen, but for an ingame HUD, could the red be generating too much 'energy', drawing focus away from the actual game? Would something like this be more tasteful… or is this a bit bland? Just a thought.

Image
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Lee Bee wrote: Tue Aug 08, 2023 11:34 pm This concept is looking incredible, wish it were a real game. Maybe you could approach Zosya to get it made it into a real game.

Honestly, the only (incredibly minor) detail I'm not 100% sure about is the strong red logo colour. Great for a title screen, but for an ingame HUD, could the red be generating too much 'energy', drawing focus away from the actual game? Would something like this be more tasteful… or is this a bit bland? Just a thought.

Image
You wouldn't believe - or maybe you would? - how long I've spent fussing over how to present the logo. I knew I wanted it in there from the start, and the outer frame was the first thing I completed:
Image Image
I tried a few variations with different kinds of BRIGHT 'shading', but never settled on anything I was happy with, largely because the attribute blocks looked too harsh.

I like your variation a lot - certainly isn't bland - but I wanted something fairly dark (perhaps most recently adding the BRIGHT red was a mistake?) and felt that blue, even BRIGHTed, was too dark. My only gripe with your version is that it seems too bright, and the cyan blends with the panel elements next to it... which I could just as easily recolour:
Image
(preview of one of the next screens I'm working on!)

What I'd done was based on the 'silver frame, red text' version of the Star Wars logos, but there are other options I might explore in future. Still very much work-in-progress.

Wouldn't be averse to turning this into a game if I could find a willing coder but, as it stands, it would quickly incur the wrath of Lucasfilm (and probably EA, the current game licenseholders). If the level designs and general game plan are truly workable, the 'story' and graphics could be adapted to something more generic 'Sci Fi'... I'm also very much inclined to have a stab at adapting this to the SAM Coupé... I keep harping on about how MODE 2 (8x1px attribute blocks) is underutilised, though full-colour MODE 4 would be the preferable look... But I suspect I'd get more interest if I suggested doing it for the Spectrum Next.

Finding a coder would be the difficult part: they tend to have their own projects - the folks I know on the SAM Coupé scene all have their own backlogs due to lack of free time - and, if the initial response I got on Facebook is anything to go by, they tend to be very reluctant to indulge self-styled 'game designers' and artists.

Either way, I suspect attempting to collaborate with Zosya, in the currently political/financial climate, would prove tricky ;)
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Ah yes it may just be the recent change to a bright red which perhaps makes it too strong. Anyway, my main point was that I really can't fault your graphics and that's all I had.

I'm quite stunned to discover that making a free game can result in prosecution over copyright. Off-topic…
Spoiler
Sued for making a free game? Personally, I find that truly appalling and an infringement of personal liberties. I mean where do you draw the line - does Lucasfilm sue a little boy who plays at being Luke Skywalker in his sand pit? What if he goes in the house and makes a little scoreboard for his game, with the Star Wars logo written on it, or invites his buddy to play? This makes him a criminal? Geesh.

Years ago I made my own clone of Puzzle Bobble on the Amiga. I had no idea that makes me a flipping criminal! I'm currently working on a free Telebugs game. Well, I was!

Years ago a mate of mine drew all the Star Wars characters as matchstick men on an A4 piece of paper, and I had to guess what the characters were. Was that A4 paper criminal?
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Lee Bee wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 1:01 pm I'm quite stunned to discover that making a free game can result in prosecution over copyright. Off-topic…
It comes down to the company... Disney and EA are, I think, known for being quite litigious when it comes to their trademarks and IPs. Nintendo put a stop to a Metroid remake (albeit apparently waiting 24 hours after its release, essentially guaranteeing it would be propagated around the internet outside the creators' control). I believe it's sometimes possible to get away with it, if emphasising that it's a free, 'fan game', but it's by no means certain. A lot of it can simply come down to whether or not you get caught... which, to me, seems less likely with ancient retro games than IPs currently in use,

The use of existing, bought-and-paid for product for play isn't a problem, but I gather 'fan art' is something that is tolerated mainly because of the potential backlash if they ever tried to police it. As long as no-one tries to pass it off as official product, they turn a blind eye.

On a related note,
Spoiler
one of the SAM games I've been working on had to be retitled due to the title trademark's current owner having threatened others over their use of his IPs/trademarks, and another has been on indefinite hold for a couple of years, partly because the coder has other things on his plate and partly because the game it's based upon is (I think) now on Antstream. We have the enthusiastic blessing of the game's creator, but may end up releasing it under a different name, if it gets completed.
With something like Star Wars, I'd rather forge ahead with something legally distinct than risk the wrath of the mouse, in particular.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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The soulless, mean-spirited greed of companies like Nintendo and Disney is truly sickening. If the Speccy had more memory you could finish your game with a true Star Wars theme, then alter the graphics to a different brand, but leave the "work in progress" in the code for nerds to poke around with.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Honestly, if you're not trying to make money off it and not targeting something that'll get a lot of attention, it'll probably slide under the radar. And worst case you'll probably get a cease and desist rather than actually getting sued. Of course it's a lot of effort that might never go anywhere.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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AndyC wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 5:24 pm Honestly, if you're not trying to make money off it and not targeting something that'll get a lot of attention, it'll probably slide under the radar. And worst case you'll probably get a cease and desist rather than actually getting sued. Of course it's a lot of effort that might never go anywhere.
All true enough... And it has to be noted that Castlevania: Spectral Interlude did not incur the wrath of Konami.

However, in the absence of a coder with the time and inclination to give this a try, that's all essentially academic. This is still, for the time being, a creative exercise undertaken to illustrate the design document, and because it's fun.

Today's entry... is kind of an experiment... and I don't think it works:
Image

General roughness aside, the idea was that it might be more 'dramatic' for the lightsaber duel to appear as a kind of backlit shadowplay, with the lightsabers themselves being the only coloured parts of the sprites. The theory behind the coloured-and-stippled background was that the attributes might be animated to give the impression of shifting light and rippling smoke.

Edit: this is what gave me the idea...
helpcomputer0 wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:59 pm Image
Of course, this idea is completely incompatible with the second phase of the fight, with Luke and Vader standing on the narrow walkway over the ventilation shaft. Two complete sets of sprites just for a dramatic effect in the first half of the battle seems a bit extravagant...
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Looks great. This iconic scene was shot mostly in silhouette so that definitely seems like the way to go. Your idea of pulsing background colours is great and would make the level incredibly dramatic.

However, this particular image has very large characters which seem to be moving in a very dynamic way, suggesting it would require an absolute shed load of large animation frames, almost like a movie. Perhaps these particular graphics might work better as a simple still, for dialogue cut scene like the "I am your father" bit. Then for the bulk of the level, the characters could be much smaller.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Lee Bee wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:24 am However, this particular image has very large characters which seem to be moving in a very dynamic way, suggesting it would require an absolute shed load of large animation frames, almost like a movie. Perhaps these particular graphics might work better as a simple still, for dialogue cut scene like the "I am your father" bit. Then for the bulk of the level, the characters could be much smaller.
The Vader sprite is approximately the same height as the characters from Barbarian, with Luke slightly smaller... My theory was that the characters and their lightsabers could be separate sprites, so neither is ever too large. Even then, I think simplifying the lightsabers - reducing or removing the light trails - would be more effective, and have less impact on the background.

The other thing that's occurred to me this morning is that, in silhouette, it might be possible to use the Highlander trick of making the sprites at half the intended size, and then displaying them scaled up... In motion, on top of the stipple, the lower resolution would be barely noticeable...
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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HEXdidnt wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:14 am The Vader sprite is approximately the same height as the characters from Barbarian, with Luke slightly smaller
Sure, but Barbarian uses the same sprites across the entire game, whereas this is but one level. Or do you see your game as a multi-load?
HEXdidnt wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:14 am it might be possible to use the Highlander trick of making the sprites at half the intended size, and then displaying them scaled up...
You've got some great ideas :-)
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Lee Bee wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:04 pm Sure, but Barbarian uses the same sprites across the entire game, whereas this is but one level. Or do you see your game as a multi-load?
That's very true... I figured there wouldn't be a huge range of moves, perhaps not even as many as Barbarian (no rolls, possibly no kicks?), which would help. I'd presumed multi-load for a 48K version from the get-go, and even started considering the possibility of 128K only, potentially multi-load there, but have been cautioned against a couple of times, due to longer loading times. For a while, I did toy with the idea of 128+3 only, but I don't think any publisher would have found that viable in 1988, and it had to fit the expectations of that year.
You've got some great ideas :-)
Thank you! If even just half of them were actually practical, I'd be unstoppable! ;)
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Another extremely rough concept - the final bonus stage on the Dagobah level.
Image

After completing some running, jumping and climbing 'assault course' stages*, each with a Jedi exercise at the end (the last of which being the face-off with the Vader phantom), Luke has to try to raise his X-Wing from the swamp, waggling the joystick to build up Force power. If the player is successful, so much the better - bonus points, etc. - but, if not, Yoda does it for him, as per the movie.

It occurs to me that the X-Wing sprite is too small, going by the size of Luke and Yoda... Might have to take another run at this screen.

*I'm thinking two... three at most. One of the Jedi exercises will be the balancing/levitating one, where hitting each power level causes another object to float, with full power causing R2 to levitate.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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...And because I had to get at least one AT-AT in here...
Image
If I were to do this 'for real', I think I'd like the AT-ATs to be made up of multiple sprites... Head and neck separate from the body, and the front/back leg pairs as individual sprites... so, five sprites?

Going to try to do the Star Destroyer megaboss next... Got a rough idea of how I want to do it, just needs a bit of planning before I start working on it.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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HEXdidnt wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2023 1:44 pm ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage
The force is strong with this game.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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...Aaaaand another 'Tiertexed' screenshot: the beginnings of the Star Destroyer megaboss from Level 4.2:
Image
Guns would be loosely mapped according to the canonical specs, but perhaps a few more of them. Targeting systems can also be destroyed, but that will either start the remaining cannons firing randomly, or call in another wave of TIE Fighters, etc.

Considering how crowded it is on this level, I'm somewhat reconsidering the Defender-style scanner. Chances are, at that size, it won't be much use... Perhaps it'd be better to do away with it to avoid confusion, and instead use it to display appropriate quotes from the movie, warnings, etc?

Or just leave a space between the panel and the play area? Gasp!
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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I like how much colour you've managed to get into these. It would be easy to make the playfield monochrome but it would definitely feel less like Star Wars.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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helpcomputer0 wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:13 pm I like how much colour you've managed to get into these. It would be easy to make the playfield monochrome but it would definitely feel less like Star Wars.
High praise indeed - I am in awe of your output!
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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This may be the last of my screen mockups on this project... It would be all to easy to disappear down a rabbit hole and create many more, but there's a point at which anything new I create won't go into the article it's intended for anyway, so this feels like as good a place as any to call a stop:
Image

Here we have Princess Leia running toward Slave-1 for a face-off with Boba Fett. There would technically be no way to 'win' against this end-of-level boss, since he simply flies off when defeated.

The colourscheme here might be a little hard on the eyes, but I wanted to capture Bespin's unique atmosphere in an external shot of some kind...
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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HEXdidnt wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:59 pm The colourscheme here might be a little hard on the eyes
I think it's awesome, really cool background!
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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Lee Bee wrote: Tue Aug 15, 2023 1:39 pm I think it's awesome, really cool background!
Much appreciated!

I did another version of this with a pattern dither and, while that produced cleaner, more precise shading, the 'softness' of the clouds was lost, and this one looked better overall. I think I'd have used a pattern dither on Slave-1 itself, had I decided to chuck that in... and that would have helped it stand out from the more colourful background.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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With all said and done (as you said "This may be the last of my screen mockups on this project"), the mock-up graphics look great in most parts - until they actually start moving. In the past, most Speccy games that had these kind of big/colourful graphics against a background came out in the final years of the Speccy and often were clunky with sprites moving in 8-pixel steps and at low frame rates and thus not very playable. Maybe the "Tiertex look" visible in some of your mock-ups reinforces this impression.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

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@XTM , based on (what little) specific feedback I got from coders, this should be more or less within the Spectrum's capabilities - particularly after shrinking the play area. It's possibly I'd need to shrink my sprites as well, but that would make the play area look bigger, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. Taking 1988 as the 'target year' is interesting, because you get games like Savage - full colour (moreso than my mockups!), reasonably smooth, and playable if a little simplistic. R-Type also came about that year, and there weren't too many complaints about that, despite the blocky sprite movement.

Obviously, it's unlikely there will ever be any proof of whether or not my design works (in this form, at least), but there are new games - Zosya's being the most obvious example - that at least appear to be pushing the boundaries of what the Spectrum can achieve, well beyond what was tapped back in the day, and I've consciously pulled back from the kind of presentation they use. Attribute block scrolling isn't awful, in and of itself, it mostly just looks bad compared to what's available on higher-spec machines.

As for the 'Tiertex look', I might go back and revisit some of the more hastily-converted assets... but that'd be more for vanity's sake than anything constructive. Better, I think, to put the effort into something original.
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Re: Hypothetically... The Empire Strikes Back on the Spectrum

Post by Lee Bee »

Your game lacks one thing…

Image

I'll bet there are some clever coders who could make this happen! :lol: Going further, you could achieve the 'fadeout' in the distance, along with superb text clarity by having antialiased/interpolated scaling which uses @ssmirnov's flickering dither method, seen in the amazing Super Mario Bros.
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